Hey,
Just to let everyone know if you have a xbox 360 with gold.. go to the dashboard scroll over to games - browse games - then you will see Fable III Is free for gold members. Apparently its a new thing were gold members get a free game every week...
Thought id share
Yeah, I thought it was some kind of joke a week ago and then I downloaded noticing it was legit.
......microsoft's bargaining chip is free stuff?
Quote from: Allie on June 17, 2013, 02:54:40 AM
......microsoft's bargaining chip is free stuff?
with the shit ps4's placed over it, it's the only way for microsoft to even make profit this term
playstation plus
Quote from: nanak tatum on June 17, 2013, 03:44:27 AM
Quote from: Pokeh on June 17, 2013, 02:57:06 AM
Quote from: Allie on June 17, 2013, 02:54:40 AM
......microsoft's bargaining chip is free stuff?
with the shit ps4's placed over it, it's the only way for microsoft to even make profit this term
That is true but Ps4 and Xbox One will be basically the same console. Just like how it is now. It's just that Microsoft sucks at presentations.
everyone thinks the xbox one will be utter shit and the xbox one's 'features' are its weak points, not the presentation as much
"we'll spy on you and you can't share your games and indie makers cant make their games on this console"
idk how you can present that in a good way
Quote from: Yz on June 17, 2013, 04:09:16 AM
"we'll spy on you and you can't share your games and indie makers cant make their games on this console"
idk how you can present that in a good way
you forgot the "you have to be online 24/7 to be able to play"-part"
Once every 24 hours the xbox must "call home" to an internet connection or it can no longer be used offline.
How the **** can that not be bad?
Quote from: nanak tatum on June 17, 2013, 03:44:27 AM
That is true but Ps4 and Xbox One will be basically the same console. Just like how it is now. It's just that Microsoft sucks at presentations.
LOL keep telling yourself that
seems to me some didn't catch up with the e3 presentation of xbox360 they said there every month there will be 2 games avaible to download for free.
for the *xbox haters* hate how much u want, xbox is my favorite console atm mostly for the features it has besides just gaming. The idea of an *entertainment box* i like. Also i think xbox is atleast fair and clear about the possibilities of the console, i bet half the people didn't understand that the guy that presented ps4 said very mumbly like that the ps4 will be charging 5 dollars a month for online gaming, Besides that, allright maybe the not being able online feature isn't great but seriously, does some1 here has no freeking internet/wifi around the house? my xbox is connected 24/7 so i don't care. I think the spying part is just bullshit and people are more affraid of it then it really is. And to discuss the price difference in it, remember that xbox has the wich playstation has * move and the ps4 edition of an sort of kinect* is not added in the price, wich would most likely how i have seen the prices of the ps3 gear would be 80 euro's with the new kinect version of ps4 and move will it end out probably even more expensive as the xbox one.
Never the less, some of u complained about second hand gaming but this feature isn't even 100% confirmed, microsoft even said not to go thourgh with this but said aswell, we cannot stop the game developers to use this but that would be their choice not microsofts choice. ( but i could laugh with the sony video clip of how to share a game ;) )
so if anyone has more commentary about the xbox one please feel free to complain :)
Not to forget that ps4 will most likely has the same *shitty internet* as how i experienced it if u compare it to xbox while they aswell charge u for it now.
I'm going to complain. I'm going to complain a lot. And I'm not even going to give you a reason why I'm complaining.
hf with your second cable box tho, rly.
Quote from: Purple on June 17, 2013, 05:09:44 AM
Once every 24 hours the xbox must "call home" to an internet connection or it can no longer be used offline.
How the **** can that not be bad?
would be ****ed after the first week if u go to college and leave ur dorm room every weekend (as I do)
gg microsoft
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 09:16:47 AM
seems to me some didn't catch up with the e3 presentation of xbox360 they said there every month there will be 2 games avaible to download for free.
for the *xbox haters* hate how much u want, xbox is my favorite console atm mostly for the features it has besides just gaming. The idea of an *entertainment box* i like. Also i think xbox is atleast fair and clear about the possibilities of the console, i bet half the people didn't understand that the guy that presented ps4 said very mumbly like that the ps4 will be charging 5 dollars a month for online gaming, Besides that, allright maybe the not being able online feature isn't great but seriously, does some1 here has no freeking internet/wifi around the house? my xbox is connected 24/7 so i don't care. I think the spying part is just bullshit and people are more affraid of it then it really is. And to discuss the price difference in it, remember that xbox has the wich playstation has * move and the ps4 edition of an sort of kinect* is not added in the price, wich would most likely how i have seen the prices of the ps3 gear would be 80 euro's with the new kinect version of ps4 and move will it end out probably even more expensive as the xbox one.
Never the less, some of u complained about second hand gaming but this feature isn't even 100% confirmed, microsoft even said not to go thourgh with this but said aswell, we cannot stop the game developers to use this but that would be their choice not microsofts choice. ( but i could laugh with the sony video clip of how to share a game ;) )
so if anyone has more commentary about the xbox one please feel free to complain :)
Not to forget that ps4 will most likely has the same *shitty internet* as how i experienced it if u compare it to xbox while they aswell charge u for it now.
God it was hard to read that post and try to make something out of it.
only thing i have to say is that i never hated xbox or playstation.
I've always had playstation, because i got a ps2 for christmas and i sticked to it.
Xbox however, seems to have made bad decisions with their Xbox One, and i think the endless battle between little 12yr olds on the internet claiming playstation/Xbox is better than the other may have come to an end with the next gen. consoles.
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 09:16:47 AM
seems to me some didn't catch up with the e3 presentation of xbox360 they said there every month there will be 2 games avaible to download for free.
for the *xbox haters* hate how much u want, xbox is my favorite console atm mostly for the features it has besides just gaming. The idea of an *entertainment box* i like. Also i think xbox is atleast fair and clear about the possibilities of the console, i bet half the people didn't understand that the guy that presented ps4 said very mumbly like that the ps4 will be charging 5 dollars a month for online gaming, Besides that, allright maybe the not being able online feature isn't great but seriously, does some1 here has no freeking internet/wifi around the house? my xbox is connected 24/7 so i don't care. I think the spying part is just bullshit and people are more affraid of it then it really is. And to discuss the price difference in it, remember that xbox has the wich playstation has * move and the ps4 edition of an sort of kinect* is not added in the price, wich would most likely how i have seen the prices of the ps3 gear would be 80 euro's with the new kinect version of ps4 and move will it end out probably even more expensive as the xbox one.
Never the less, some of u complained about second hand gaming but this feature isn't even 100% confirmed, microsoft even said not to go thourgh with this but said aswell, we cannot stop the game developers to use this but that would be their choice not microsofts choice. ( but i could laugh with the sony video clip of how to share a game ;) )
so if anyone has more commentary about the xbox one please feel free to complain :)
Not to forget that ps4 will most likely has the same *shitty internet* as how i experienced it if u compare it to xbox while they aswell charge u for it now.
so basically tl;dr your an xbox fanboy
EDIT: I decided that I should post what made me think you're a fanboy.
does some1 here has no freeking internet/wifi around the house if the internet goes out, I wanna use my console for gaming. Also, Madprox's case.
my xbox is connected 24/7 so i don't care You're not the only one that may want to buy an Xbox1
remember that xbox has the wich playstation has * move and the ps4 edition of an sort of kinect* Kinect / Move probably still suck ass & 90% of hardcore gamers dont give a shit about Kinect / Move.
Quote from: Madprox on June 17, 2013, 09:22:02 AM
Quote from: Purple on June 17, 2013, 05:09:44 AM
Once every 24 hours the xbox must "call home" to an internet connection or it can no longer be used offline.
How the **** can that not be bad?
would be ****ed after the first week if u go to college and leave ur dorm room every weekend (as I do)
gg microsoft
u got a smart phone? because microsoft aswell said if u just log in with ur profile account on ur phone the problem is solved? just click once on a xboxlive button or app they are developing and ur logged, and if u come home after ur back from a schoolweek u can just log and start playing, its not like the xbox will crash if u don't login? so its pretty much the same as it is now?iu dont use ur xbox a week, u log in he might get some updates, and ur ready to go.
im an xbox hater coz i hate how bad microsoft ****ed up, yea ok i dont even get consoles coz they are shit lol
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 09:26:59 AM
Quote from: Madprox on June 17, 2013, 09:22:02 AM
Quote from: Purple on June 17, 2013, 05:09:44 AM
Once every 24 hours the xbox must "call home" to an internet connection or it can no longer be used offline.
How the **** can that not be bad?
would be ****ed after the first week if u go to college and leave ur dorm room every weekend (as I do)
gg microsoft
u got a smart phone? because microsoft aswell said if u just log in with ur profile account on ur phone the problem is solved? just click once on a xboxlive button or app they are developing and ur logged, and if u come home after ur back from a schoolweek u can just log and start playing, its not like the xbox will crash if u don't login? so its pretty much the same as it is now?iu dont use ur xbox a week, u log in he might get some updates, and ur ready to go.
No, I do not own a smartphone.
This is my phone, and i like it.
(http://img.cbcdn.net/products/121127?width=250&height=350)
Fyi, it doesn't even have a camera.
just call, text, music.
I updated previous post, read pls.
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 09:16:47 AM
does some1 here has no freeking internet/wifi around the house? my xbox is connected 24/7 so i don't care.
You are ignorant, ever heard of third world countries?
Quote from: Eat4two on June 17, 2013, 09:35:08 AM
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 09:16:47 AM
does some1 here has no freeking internet/wifi around the house? my xbox is connected 24/7 so i don't care.
You are ignorant, ever heard of third world countries?
I find it very sad that 3rd world country's doesnt have it that well, but like i said, 3rd world country will most likely not buy it since they are 3rd world country and they simply can't afford xbox/ps and with the quote u used, u should have said that probably every1 who buys an xbox/ps4 will have this, indeed 3rd world country's won't
Quote from: Yz on June 17, 2013, 09:28:50 AM'
im an xbox hater coz i hate how bad microsoft ****ed up, yea ok i dont even get consoles coz they are shit lol
I agree microsoft screwed up here and they defenitly got some points wich arent good. But ps4 didn't made that much progress i think? i might not have slipped away with my mind since they held their presentation while it was in my country 4 am.
Purple, i am not that much a fanboy i just dissagree at some points, i most likely buy the console after maybe half year release date.
as the problem with max, just like i said its not like ur xbox would explode if not logged in everyday, if u get back from vacation/school just log in he get some minor updates, ( microsoft talked about several mb ) just like u use ur ps3/xbox360 now?
about the wifi, idk maybe not everyone is able to afford wifi/internet but i think if they can't afford that they can't afford an new xbox/ps4 aswell, I think atleast that atleast in my country ( we will now get probably free internet (wifi) in our country for free, so in holland this isn't a problem. maybe other country is but idk how it goes around there.
And indeed i do have to agree the move and ps version of kinect might not be used that much with real gamers, i just wanted to let u guys know that u do pay more, but if u would want the same features on the ps4 it would be same price or even more expensive
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 10:10:24 AM
Quote from: Eat4two on June 17, 2013, 09:35:08 AM
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 09:16:47 AM
does some1 here has no freeking internet/wifi around the house? my xbox is connected 24/7 so i don't care.
You are ignorant, ever heard of third world countries?
I find it very sad that 3rd world country's doesnt have it that well, but like i said, 3rd world country will most likely not buy it since they are 3rd world country and they simply can't afford xbox/ps and with the quote u used, u should have said that probably every1 who buys an xbox/ps4 will have this, indeed 3rd world country's won't
There are lots of people in third world countries who can afford consoles, however having a requirement to regularly be connected to the Internet will stop potential buyers. Microsoft is simply decreasing their customer base with all their demands.
Quote from: Eat4two on June 17, 2013, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 10:10:24 AM
Quote from: Eat4two on June 17, 2013, 09:35:08 AM
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 09:16:47 AM
does some1 here has no freeking internet/wifi around the house? my xbox is connected 24/7 so i don't care.
You are ignorant, ever heard of third world countries?
I find it very sad that 3rd world country's doesnt have it that well, but like i said, 3rd world country will most likely not buy it since they are 3rd world country and they simply can't afford xbox/ps and with the quote u used, u should have said that probably every1 who buys an xbox/ps4 will have this, indeed 3rd world country's won't
There are lots of people in third world countries who can afford consoles, however having a requirement to regularly be connected to the Internet will stop potential buyers. Microsoft is simply decreasing their customer base with all their demands.
the real third world country's are already happy if they can buy theirselves food, they won't buy a console, and if their is a richer family who can afford, they will have most likely internet, the poorer gamer in third world country simply won't buy an xbox/ps console.
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 11:37:19 AM
Quote from: Eat4two on June 17, 2013, 11:18:02 AM
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 10:10:24 AM
Quote from: Eat4two on June 17, 2013, 09:35:08 AM
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 09:16:47 AM
does some1 here has no freeking internet/wifi around the house? my xbox is connected 24/7 so i don't care.
You are ignorant, ever heard of third world countries?
I find it very sad that 3rd world country's doesnt have it that well, but like i said, 3rd world country will most likely not buy it since they are 3rd world country and they simply can't afford xbox/ps and with the quote u used, u should have said that probably every1 who buys an xbox/ps4 will have this, indeed 3rd world country's won't
There are lots of people in third world countries who can afford consoles, however having a requirement to regularly be connected to the Internet will stop potential buyers. Microsoft is simply decreasing their customer base with all their demands.
the real third world country's are already happy if they can buy theirselves food, they won't buy a console, and if their is a richer family who can afford, they will have most likely internet, the poorer gamer in third world country simply won't buy an xbox/ps console.
Didn't realize you were God and can see what people are gonna do / what they are doing.
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 10:10:24 AM
I find it very sad that 3rd world country's doesnt have it that well, but like i said, 3rd world country will most likely not buy it since they are 3rd world country and they simply can't afford xbox/ps and with the quote u used, u should have said that probably every1 who buys an xbox/ps4 will have this, indeed 3rd world country's won't
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 11:37:19 AM
the real third world country's are already happy if they can buy theirselves food, they won't buy a console, and if their is a richer family who can afford, they will have most likely internet, the poorer gamer in third world country simply won't buy an xbox/ps console.
i don't know what you're taught at school kid , but you have the wrong idea of what's classified as a third world country.
your posts clearly show that you're just a fanboy , personally i used to buy w/e console my friends had so we can play together since xbox 360 and ps3 were pretty close and neither was significantly "better"
microsoft just ignored the world and made a console just for americans which is retarded as they targeted a smaller group of consumers.
xbox one provides cable and nfl and other shit that won't benefit anyone in europe for example or anywhere that's not america
the always online service is also a huge mistake , i live in egypt which is a third world country AND i have a computer and internet and can feed myself (bet that was a shocker) my internet isn't 100% reliable but the always online feature is just a minor nuisance when i'm at home , but i love taking my console with me to my vacation villa in the north coast guess what bobo no internet there (i go there like every other weekend)
and now the used game market , friends trade games.
idk if you don't have friends or you've never seen people trade games but it happens. if i have say an offline game like bioshock infinite and my friend has skyrim , when we both complete the games and are bored with them we might as well trade them with each other.
and restricting your consumer is never a good idea , because the consumer is smart enough to go to the service with more freedom
and the smartphone thing works with sony as well you can sign into psn purchase and download a game on your ps4 while you're at school , and go home find it ready and just play it
tl;dr
you're clearly a fan boy as you're ignoring everything that points to ps4 being this gen's superior console , and you have no idea what the global market is like.
Quote from: mo9 on June 17, 2013, 12:17:14 PM
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 10:10:24 AM
I find it very sad that 3rd world country's doesnt have it that well, but like i said, 3rd world country will most likely not buy it since they are 3rd world country and they simply can't afford xbox/ps and with the quote u used, u should have said that probably every1 who buys an xbox/ps4 will have this, indeed 3rd world country's won't
Quote from: Ramk1ng on June 17, 2013, 11:37:19 AM
the real third world country's are already happy if they can buy theirselves food, they won't buy a console, and if their is a richer family who can afford, they will have most likely internet, the poorer gamer in third world country simply won't buy an xbox/ps console.
i don't know what you're taught at school kid , but you have the wrong idea of what's classified as a third world country.
your posts clearly show that you're just a fanboy , personally i used to buy w/e console my friends had so we can play together since xbox 360 and ps3 were pretty close and neither was significantly "better"
microsoft just ignored the world and made a console just for americans which is retarded as they targeted a smaller group of consumers.
xbox one provides cable and nfl and other shit that won't benefit anyone in europe for example or anywhere that's not america
the always online service is also a huge mistake , i live in egypt which is a third world country AND i have a computer and internet and can feed myself (bet that was a shocker) my internet isn't 100% reliable but the always online feature is just a minor nuisance when i'm at home , but i love taking my console with me to my vacation villa in the north coast guess what bobo no internet there (i go there like every other weekend)
and now the used game market , friends trade games.
idk if you don't have friends or you've never seen people trade games but it happens. if i have say an offline game like bioshock infinite and my friend has skyrim , when we both complete the games and are bored with them we might as well trade them with each other.
and restricting your consumer is never a good idea , because the consumer is smart enough to go to the service with more freedom
and the smartphone thing works with sony as well you can sign into psn purchase and download a game on your ps4 while you're at school , and go home find it ready and just play it
tl;dr
you're clearly a fan boy as you're ignoring everything that points to ps4 being this gen's superior console , and you have no idea what the global market is like.
^Agreed with all this.
best post ever.
lol pwnt... dont mess with mo 8)
Xbox 360 and PS3 already provide things which allows us to watch NFL, NBA, NHL, etc. I'm not going to say Sony is pathetic because I love my PS3 but what they are doing is just making another console that can support higher graphics. I'm not seeing anything special about the PS4. They're are not taking anymore technological advances towards improvement. Sticking to the old ways can be good at times, but if I'm buying a new console, I want something that is actually DIFFERENT then the old one. Xbox One is actually taking a step up from its generation. People complaining about the kinetic always hearing you, what the **** are you crying about. You act like no one is watching you on the internet right now. And what's Xbox One going to do? Tell on you if it hears you having sex? It's just a step up from that same old shit we always had. People complaining that you have to have a connect. IT'S NO ****ING DIFFERENT FROM THE SENSOR ON THE WII EXCEPT MORE ADVANCED. I swear, everyone bitches about the stupidest shit. Internet connect; Where is the problem? You talk about how it has to connect 24hrs like it's a bad thing. If you don't have an internet connection, how should you even have enough money to buy a console anyway. Spend your money on something worth your time instead of trying to play a video game without internet. That's like having a sex with a girl and not getting her pregnant without a condom. Its just a stupid thing to try that's just going to bite you back in the ass later. "Oh but what if I want to travel around with it", It's a ****ing console that's meant to stay at home. It isn't a damn PSP. I'm not buying a PS4 when I can just get those games on my PS3 with less graphics. It's just stupid.
Quote from: Madprox on June 17, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
best post ever.
Really? A post about the next gen console war is the 'best post ever'? It was a great post but that's just silly to say..
Quote from: zomniethe4 on June 17, 2013, 04:20:28 PM
Xbox 360 and PS3 already provide things which allows us to watch NFL, NBA, NHL, etc. I'm not going to say Sony is pathetic because I love my PS3 but what they are doing is just making another console that can support higher graphics. I'm not seeing anything special about the PS4. They're are not taking anymore technological advances towards improvement. Sticking to the old ways can be good at times, but if I'm buying a new console, I want something that is actually DIFFERENT then the old one. Xbox One is actually taking a step up from its generation. People complaining about the kinetic always hearing you, what the **** are you crying about. You act like no one is watching you on the internet right now. And what's Xbox One going to do? Tell on you if it hears you having sex? It's just a step up from that same old shit we always had. People complaining that you have to have a connect. IT'S NO ****ING DIFFERENT FROM THE SENSOR ON THE WII EXCEPT MORE ADVANCED. I swear, everyone *****es about the stupidest shit. Internet connect; Where is the problem? You talk about how it has to connect 24hrs like it's a bad thing. If you don't have an internet connection, how should you even have enough money to buy a console anyway. Spend your money on something worth your time instead of trying to play a video game without internet. That's like having a sex with a girl and not getting her pregnant without a condom. Its just a stupid thing to try that's just going to bite you back in the ass later. "Oh but what if I want to travel around with it", It's a ****ing console that's meant to stay at home. It isn't a damn PSP. I'm not buying a PS4 when I can just get those games on my PS3 with less graphics. It's just stupid.
That post made you look like a dumbass.
A lot of people just can't afford a monthly internet connection. There were probably 6 years where I just couldn't afford a monthly internet connection or a pc, but could still afford to save up for a console and buy a game once a month. Not new games, either.
Also, if the internet goes out then you can't use it. What if you go on vacation for a week or two and wanna use it? You can't if that Hotel doesn't have internet.
PS4 is a step-up in hardware from the PS3, that's what a new console should be. Atleast, imo.
Wii Sensor is different from Xbox's Kinect, and this is PS3 vs. Xbox1, not PS3 vs. Xbox1 vs. Wii.
Also, saying "You shouldn't take the Xbox with you when you go places for a pretty lengthy period of time" is restricting the use of a physical item that someone bought, which is stupid as ****.
If you can't afford an internet connection, you don't need to be playing video games. You should be doing something that would increase your income. Simple as that. Internet should not go out for over 24 hours, that's stupid. If you're going on vacation, why the **** are you playing video games. You should be enjoying your time where ever you are. PS4 is a barely a step up. It just has more memory and is better graphically inclined. Bringing the wii was an example, not adding it in. Yes, it's different capability wise but the concept is the same thing. It's staying in a certain spot at all times. Why would it be tampered with?
Quote from: zomniethe4 on June 17, 2013, 04:34:46 PM
If you can't afford an internet connection, you don't need to be playing video games. You should be doing something that would increase your income. Simple as that. Internet should not go out for over 24 hours, that's stupid. If you're going on vacation, why the **** are you playing video games. You should be enjoying your time where ever you are. PS4 is a barely a step up. It just has more memory and is better graphically inclined. Bringing the wii was an example, not adding it in. Yes, it's different capability wise but the concept is the same thing. It's staying in a certain spot at all times. Why would it be tampered with?
"You should..."
"You should...."
It doesn't matter what you think they SHOULD be doing, it matters what they WANT to be doing.
Also PS4 is more than just barely a step up.
Wants are blinding by the eye. They dethrone the perspectives of life that are there to better you.
Quote from: nanak tatum on June 17, 2013, 05:15:19 PM
@Cooky - You have no information or idea on either console so stop posting and acting like you do.
Yeah you're right.. I guess all the articles I read on the internet with valid sources don't count as information
im gonna buy a ps4 cuz its cheaper :)
Quote from: nanak tatum on June 17, 2013, 05:15:19 PM
@Others - I see a lot of valid arguments on each side.
i dont
Mo i defenitly agree with u that the feature being online once a day sucks or that u can't take ur console everywhere u go, i agree with u on this. 3rd world country, im indeed not specific known about the meaning about the word but i think its about a country wich simply is very poor like probably most country's in the contenent Afrika.
I don't think u read all my posts considering second hand trading. Microsoft devolpers are still discussing but most likely this will not happen, Microsoft DID say it's possible for the developers that work for xbox that they might add this feature but this is not confirmed and most likely cuz of the critisism it will not happen.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/06/microsoft-details-xbox-one-used-games-always-online (http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/06/microsoft-details-xbox-one-used-games-always-online)
scroll down to used games and u will see.
I will rest my case and not respond anymore about the ps4 vs xbox one since it actually all is off topic and just started with a new xbox feature?
Quote from: Allie on June 17, 2013, 06:20:08 PM
Quote from: nanak tatum on June 17, 2013, 05:15:19 PM
@Others - I see a lot of valid arguments on each side.
i dont
thats coz zoms the only non-xbox fanboy in this thread whos defending the xbox lawl
This thread was only to let everyone know of a free game and its turned into a console war ::)
Quote from: TriggerHappy on June 18, 2013, 10:51:03 AM
This thread was only to let everyone know of a free game and its turned into a console war ::)
I'd prefer the term debate.
Yeah it was more of a debate, I didn't see much of a shit storm happening most of the time.