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Topics - Xrow

16
Off Topic / ...
February 26, 2011, 07:22:55 PM
Quote from: Optimism
Then, provide links substantiating that this universe is indeed finite. I would take my life right now if done.

I gave the names of my sources in my original "The God Allusion" post.
Apparently you didn't look them up.

The Universe is finite.
a) Einstein's Theory of Relativity states that the universe is expanding at a constant rate and has been from a definite point somewhere in the past. If we were to reverse time and watch the universe, we would see it condense, at a constant rate, to a point of nothing. Einstein's Theory of Relativity has been proved to 5 decimal points.
b) Hubble's observance of what he calls "Red Shift" on the Mount Wilson Observatory proves Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Hubble's Red Shift is the observance of a trail of light that follows galaxies. It proves that other galaxies and cosmic bodies are moving away from us at a constant rate. This trail is observable because light moves so quickly that time literally moves slower for light than for stationary objects. Because of this, looking into space is essentially looking back in time.
c) The First Law of Thermodynamics states that there is a finite amount of energy in the universe (or any other body).
d) The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the universe is running out of energy. Because only a finite amount of energy can exist in a body (The First Law of Thermodynamics), and because the universe is running out of energy, the universe must be finite – if it was infinite, we would have run out of energy long ago.
e) The findings of NASA's COBE Probe first explored cosmic background radiation, the oldest light in the universe, that originated at the big bang. The findings of NASA's COBE Probe can be seen at http://lambda.gsfc.nasa.gov/product/cobe/.
f) The findings of NASA's WMAP Probe prove the findings of COBE. WMAP mapped the cosmic background radiation of our universe. The findings of NASA's WMAP Probe can be seen at http://wmap.gsfc.nasa.gov/. A timeline of the universe can be seen at http://wmap.gsfc.nasa.gov/media/060915/index.html.
g) If the Big Bang actually occurred, we would see a variation in the temperature of cosmic background radiation. NASA's COBE Probe was sent to explore the cosmic background radiation of our universe and search for any such variation. COBE was launched in 1989 and in 1992, COBE's findings were announced. Not only did COBE find a variation, but the precision was amazing. The variations showed that the explosion and expansion of the universe was precisely tweaked to allow just enough matter to aloow the formation of galaxies, but not enough to cause the universe to collapse.
17
Off Topic / The God Allusion
February 26, 2011, 01:39:23 AM
Quote from: Optimism on February 26, 2011, 12:16:24 AM
Quote from: Xrow on February 25, 2011, 11:48:19 PM
Then why have you not proven me wrong?  ::)
If you make the outlandish claim, then provide substantial evidence. If you can't, then stop believing in idiocy.

1. The universe is finite.
See: Einstein's Theory of Relativity, Radiation Afterglow, Hubble's Red Shift, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

2. All that is finite must have a cause.
See: The Law of Causality, Infinite Regression.

3. Because the universe is finite, the universe must have had a cause.

4. The universe exploded from a point of nothing.
See: Radiation Afterglow, Hubble's Red Shift, Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, NASA's COBE Missions, NASA's WMAP Missions, Great Galaxy Seeds.
http://i56.tinypic.com/2h5vbzl.jpg

5. Nothing creates nothing; nothing can create itself; an effect cannot precede its cause.

6. Time, space and mass/energy (matter) came into existence simultaneously.
One cannot exist without the others. See: Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

7. Because nature did not exist before the big bang (remember, a cause cannot follow its effect), nature could not have created the universe.
Nothing existed before the big bang, an effect cannot precede its cause.

8. Therefore something outside of nature (supernatural) must have been the cause of the first cause - the universe.
SUPERNATURAL: Definition: (1) : of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

9. This supernatural cause must have been self-existent, timeless, nonspatial, and immaterial.
Nothing existed before the big bang, an effect cannot precede its cause. See: Hubble's Red Shift, Einstine's Theory of Relativity, Cosmic Background Radiation, Radiation Afterglow, Great Galaxy Seeds, NASA's COBE Missions, NASA's WMAP Missions.

10. Because nothing can cause itself, the first cause must have been uncaused (timeless).
Nothing existed before the big bang, nothing can cause itself, an effect cannot precede its cause.

11. This uncaused causer must be:
a. Self-existent, nonspatial, timeless and immaterial (because the first cause created time, space and matter, the first cause must be outside of time, space and matter).
b. Unimaginably powerful, to create the entire universe out of nothing.
c. Supremely intelligent, to design the universe with such incredible precision (see: the Anthropic Principle).
d. Personal, in order to choose to convert a state of nothingness into the time-space-material universe (an impersonal choice has no
ability to make choices).




"Only a rookie who knows nothing about science
would say science takes away from faith. If you really
study science, it will take you closer to God."

-Nanoscientist James Tour of Rice University




Note: I did not mention God or the Bible within my argument.
-----
My faith does not substantiate my argument; my argument substantiates my faith.

Thank you.


18
General Discussion / Give me Jura
February 25, 2011, 02:37:01 AM
Give me Jura
19
Off Topic / The difference between TRUTH and BELIEF.
February 23, 2011, 01:10:55 AM
TRUTH: Definition:
(1) : the state of being the case : fact
(2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality
(3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality

Fact or reality.
In other words, truth is not defined by human perception. It is FACT AND REALITY.

REALITY cannot vary per individual, and therefore TRUTH cannot either.




BELIEF: Definition:
(1) : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
(2) : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
(3) : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

Trust, tenets or conviction.
In other words, BELIEF is the CONVICTION of TRUTH.

TRUSTS or TENETS can vary per individual, and therefore BELIEF can as well.




TRUTH cannot vary, BELIEF can.
Please consider this before replying to it.
20
Off Topic / Keep yourself under control.
February 23, 2011, 12:32:39 AM
Quote from: Optimism
I'm calling you on this right now. You have no f**king clue regarding my proposition of truth and its relativity and absoluteness. The two numbered events are stand alone, BOTH STRICTLY RELATING TO THE ****ING INDIVIDUAL ONLY. Yes, to you, it is absolute truth that I am going to hell because YOU belief it. It is also absolute truth that I am NOT going to hell BECAUSE I DON'T BELIEVE IT. So your saying that two mutually exclusive "truths" are both true at the same time? HOW CAN IT BE TRUE THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HELL AND ARE NOT GOING TO HELL AT THE SAME TIME?
You are confusing TRUTH with BELIEF, my friend. You must understand the difference before we may progress.
Due to their conflicting nature, these two truths are LABELED AS RELATIVE. The reason they are labeled AS RELATIVE is because BOTH are unsubstantiated claims with regard to the opposing belief. This is simply a case of subjectivity vs. objectivity (another concept you are far from grasping).
Sigh. Opti, one is true regardless of whether you or I BELIEVE it to be true or not. You are either ABSOLUTELY GOING TO HELL, or you are ABSOLUTELY NOT GOING TO HELL.

As for mutually exclusivity, I understand this term and its implications completely. However, what I do not understand is the context in which you apply it. I still don't, as you are that logically UNSOUND.
You are volitionally blind. It cannot be absolutely true that you are going to hell, while at the same time being absolutely true that you are not going to hell. REGARDLESS OF EITHER OF OUR BELIEFS! Understand?
21
Off Topic / Two questions for Opti
February 21, 2011, 08:03:24 PM
1. Do you have any arguments as to why a creator cannot exist?
2. If a creator does not exist, how did everything get here?
22
Off Topic / All for you Opti =]
February 20, 2011, 07:58:19 PM
23
Off Topic / Truth: Relative or Absolute?
January 18, 2011, 02:05:21 AM
Quote from: Xrow
TRUTH IS NOT RELATIVE.    
THEREFORE TRUTH IS ABSOLUTE.
THEREFORE THIS IS ABSOLUTE.
BUT I OFFERED 17, THUS MAKING A NEW TRUTH.
THUS YOUR TRUTH IS NOW WRONG.
AND MIND IS RIGHT.

THUS YOU SUCK.

So suck on THAT Allie >;O

Quote from: falliecy
TRUTH IS NOT RELATIVE.   <--- I see no evidence for this, therefore your proof is denied

Suck on THAT Xrow >;O

Example or you lose.
24
Off Topic / It's true :\
January 18, 2011, 12:33:52 AM
No, this is not meant for debate.***
This is only for discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWwEI-ky6uI




A question for Opti:
Were your parents like this? Stubbornly and intolerably set in their beliefs for no other reason than because they thought they should be?
25
Off Topic / God is quite good.
January 14, 2011, 09:53:03 PM
http://vimeo.com/6148456

Watch if you like, I've seen the first half 2 and a half times now.
Frank Turek destroys Christopher Hitchens, and because Christopher is a more knowledgeable Atheist than you, Turek thus destroys you as well.

Turek explains, very aptly, why God must exist.




Opti, God is good.
Tell me why you think He is not.




By the way, I have lost all faith I had in your ability to hold up your end of a debate.
The more I learn, the less you know.
26
Off Topic / New sig!
January 12, 2011, 02:34:38 AM
;)
27
General Discussion / Really?
January 11, 2011, 12:46:13 AM
REALLY?

Where are my 200k+ coins >_>
And where is my "permanent membership."

/Losing respect
28
Off Topic / Regarding hell~
January 09, 2011, 04:27:11 PM
Suppose that a man has just captured the rapist who is responsible for molesting and murdering his five-year-old daughter! Would that father be justified in killing the man who took his daughter from him? Most people would understand his actions if he were to do so. How justified would he be if he went further in his punishment of the evil man, torturing him for three or four days before killing him? Still, his actions may seem justified to some, though most people would feel that he had now gone too far. But, what if rather than killing the child molester, he intentionally kept him alive for the length of a normal life span in order to torture him endlessly? Very few people would condone such actions, yet worship a god who would do the same.
Child molestation is one of the most heinous of all acts. Even so, it is inconceivable to imagine punishing a child molester with endless torture; however, most Christian churches teach that God will torture endlessly all those who do not believe in Him, child molesters and sweet little grandmothers alike. The traditional view of Christianity is that all non-Christians will go to hell where they will be burned with everlasting fire for all eternity. Christian theology also teaches that God is love; therefore, that traditional view of hell is illogical and contradictory. It is very easy to understand why there are so many skeptics of Christianity, who by reason determine that a loving God could never carry out such a punishment. They then deny that He exists. Hell has made them unbelievers. The belief that Hell is a place of literal, conscious, eternal torment is a misconception based on Platonic error, improper translation from Greek and Hebrew to English biblical text and intentional deception.
Throughout the past two thousand years Christians have done great damage to the originally pure and divine doctrine which had once lead followers of Christ to give up their lives as they stood unswervingly for His truth. Over time those who believed in Christ allowed the doctrines and influences of pagans to taint their Christian faith. Under the leadership of Constantine the fourth century Christians modeled their churches after the Roman Pantheon, a temple to all gods. According to Wikipedia, Easter, which is named for the goddess of fertility, Eostre, became a Christian holiday celebrating the resurrection of Christ. Christ and his apostles began to be depicted with haloes over their heads, haloes which resembled the rays of sunlight which protruded from the head of Apollo, the Roman Sun god.
One doctrine which has had a terrible and lasting effect on Christianity is the doctrine of the innate immortality of the soul. In the fourth century B.C., Plato, a Greek philosopher, began to teach that the human soul was innately immortal, living on apart from the body after death. He taught that the soul could not die and that the body and soul became separate upon death.
The Jews of the Old Testament along with the early Christian leaders believed not in immortality of the soul but rather in the resurrection of the body and the soul. Many of the men who led the church during the first three centuries, such as Justin Martyr and Tatian openly opposed the idea of the immortality of the soul, believing that it was a challenge to the doctrine of the resurrection. In his book, The Fire that Consumes, Edward Fudge states that John Darby, the man who popularized the Christian doctrine of the rapture, was convicted that "the idea of the immortal soul was not in general a gospel topic; that it comes on the contrary from the Platonists; and that it was just when the coming of Christ was denied in the Church, or at least began to be lost sight of that the doctrine of the immortality of the soul came in to replace that of
the resurrection".
The error of the immortal soul has caused believers to rationalize that all people will live on after death, whether good or bad, and if the godly will receive eternal life in Heaven, then those who are ungodly will suffer for all eternity. If a person believes that the soul cannot die, then Heaven does not make sense without hell. But, the Bible does not teach that the soul is indestructible; in fact it teaches that our soul can become immortal but only as God chooses. The Bible teaches conditional immortality. The human soul can live forever but only if God has chosen to impute immortality into that soul. The condition for receiving immortality is faith in Christ. But, what will happen to those who do not meet that condition?
Within Christianity there has been much confusion about the state of dead. A large portion of that confusion is the result of mistranslation of Biblical text. In modern translations of the Bible, the Germanic word Hell is likely to be seen anytime the text confronts the afterlife. According to Strong's Greek and Hebrew Lexicon there are four different words which have been taken under the umbrella of that one word, which has led to the common misconception that all four words are synonymous. If all four words did indeed mean the same thing then any passage containing the word hell would apply to all four eschatological words. But, since all but two of the words have different meanings, the word hell has tainted the true meaning of Biblical apocalyptic scriptures.
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. According to Strong's Hebrew Lexicon there is one word used in the original Hebrew manuscripts which describes the state of the dead. It is a place called, Sheol. Sheol has three meanings; "the grave", "the pit" or "the hidden place." In its original form no other meaning can be found.
The New Testament was written in Greek. According to Strong's Greek Lexicon, the original Greek manuscripts contain three words which are used to explain the condition and location of the dead. The Greek counterpart for the Hebrew word, Sheol is Hades. Hades conveys the same meaning as Sheol. It can mean either "the grave", "the pit" or the "hidden place". Hades in no way implies fire or Punishment.
Tarturus is a place only spoken of twice in the Bible. Jude 7 in the New Testament speaks of a group of angels who left their assigned positions in the heavenly realm, descending to this realm in order to have intercourse with human women. Those angels are kept in Tartarus, bound in unbreakable chains, awaiting the Final Judgement.
Gehenna is a place which coincides with the Hebrew, Valley of Hinnom. The Valley of Hinnom was a massive garbage heap outside of Jerusalem where all of the impure things were burned in order to keep the holy city pure. Gehenna is a the eschatological equivalent of the Valley of Hinnom, where the impure things are burned in order to keep the holy city, the new Jerusalem, pure.
The four words paint three separate pictures of three distinctly different places. The word hell however is an umbrella, causing the four words to their individual identities. Along with the masking of the originals meanings of the judgement words, there is a problem with the words, forever and eternity. There is no Greek word for eternity. The word which is used in the original manuscripts is Aion, which actually means an age or ages. If a person reads Aion as forever and Hades as Gehenna, it is easy to imagine a place of eternal, conscious torment. However, that image would be wrought out of mistranslation of Greek manuscripts. The question becomes, why do the modern English translations of the Bible contain these errors in translation? Has there been intentional deception when it comes to the Final Judgement of mankind?
According to Strong's Hebrew Lexicon, in the original Hebrew Old Testament text, the Word Sheol is used sixty-five times. Three times the word Sheol is translated to say the pit; thirty-one times, "the grave"; and thirty-one times, "Hell". How did those who translated the Old Testament text decide when to translate Sheol as the grave and when to translate it as Hell? They only translated Sheol as Hell when the person being spoken of was an evil or Godless person. It would have done unimaginable damage to the Catholic doctrine of the immortality of the soul, if the translators had properly translated that the Righteous and the Unrighteous had gone to the same place, the grave.
Another occurrence of intentional mistranslation occurs in Luke 23:43. This is the passage in which Jesus supposedly declares to the thief on the cross, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in Paradise." According to the conditionalist website Truth or Tradition, The problem with that translation is that there was no punctuation in Greek. Therefore, the translators could in no way be certain where to place that comma. The actual intended translation could have just of easily been "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in Paradise." In which case the meaning is completely different. If the comma came before today, then Jesus was telling the thief that in that very day he would be with Him in Paradise, an interesting notion since second Peter tells us that Jesus descended into Hades for three days, so as not to go directly to paradise that very day. If the comma had been placed after today, then what Jesus told the thief would have fallen in line with His normal form of speech, whereby Jesus Proclaimed His deity by giving credence to his own message prior to giving it. Over and over again in the gospels Jesus uses phrases like, "truly, truly I tell you" and "today I tell you the truth." The second scenario is far more likely considering that it fits His usual lingo.
Also, another phrase which occurs in the New Testament when "Hell" is addressed is, "Forever and ever," but once again there is no Greek word for forever, let alone any justification for exaggerating that which has falsely been called eternal, adding more time to it by complementing it with "and ever." The word which actually is used is aion, which can mean either age or ages. Presuming that it means forever when teamed with the concept of punishment is not only in error, it is also convenient when someone wants to believe that "Hell" is eternal. But why would anyone want to believe in an eternal place of torment?
On Sundays at lunch, restaurants fill up with churchgoers, having dressed themselves up for that morning's service. I remember that as I grew up, if for some reason I missed church I felt subordinate to those who dined in suit and tie. Churches today have become temples of status, as gold and pearls adorn the necks of elders' wives.
Attire is not the only solace they seek as they hope to attain superiority through the piety of their own spiritual works, delighting in the sins of others. They don't see an eternity spent with the One they profess as being reward enough for following Him. Instead, they must also see that those who did not choose "their" path are "properly" punished. Hell is a great divider of persons. It serves as a way of creating an eternal separation between the pious and the unrighteous.
As evangelists pour into the streets, tracts are circulated and fire and brimstone are preached. The Great I Am is spoken of as the Executioner who, wearing His black mask, gladly tortures the seed of Adam. Fear and not love is the great motivator for seeking His face. How sad He must feel to be blasphemed and slandered in such a way. Yahweh, the Loving Father, has become known as a sadist. The hearts of His children have been hardened by the deceptive grip of Hell. His own words have been twisted and turned against him, changing his whole character.
Due to platonic error, improper biblical translation and intentional deception, God has been portrayed as a monster who endlessly tortures unfaithful subjects. If this description of our Loving Father is correct, then He violates even the finite ideals of our consciences, possessing no greater virtue than the father who keeps alive for torture his daughter's perverted murderer. Is God really the type of creator who fills His basement with prisoners to torture? Does He breathe the breath of life into the unrighteous, buying from them an eternity by which to char their undying flesh? Or, is He what He claims to be, Abba, translated "Daddy?"
29
Off Topic / Help!
January 09, 2011, 02:05:31 AM
Does anyone know of a law that states that everything in existence had to have a beginning?
Google gave me links to the Cosmological Argument. Is that it?

Thanks!
30
Spam / Stop locking every damn topic, jeez.
January 09, 2011, 12:52:45 AM
Quote from: cjtown2 words, 6 letters; shut up.

Ooh Cj, your so awesome and intelligent  ::)

100 words, 478 letters;

So far all you've been on these forums is a catalyst for nonconstructive flaming.
Once you develop your own independent intelligence unbiased from what your parents or other players on these forums believe, then possibly you can talk; but consider learning proper English, the language of this game, first. And seriously? From the "arguments" I've heard from you, I can tell you do not know what your talking about, and all your really doing is voicing your own simple-minded opinions.

Keep your thoughts to yourself unless you have something intelligent to say and a method by which to back it up.
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