Quote from: Xrow on September 22, 2010, 12:35:55 AM
Sigh, okay Opti.
I don't understand your level of thinking.

This debate is over, we're lost causes.


By the way, everyone, me and Opti have had this debate going for three years or more.
We're still good friends.

Indeed .

Quote from: Xrow on September 21, 2010, 11:22:40 PM
This is more f*ckin awesome than factual. But then, it's also true:
Winning creationist argument (Print the bible on them):

Humans are by far the dominant species on the modern planet.
And we are rapidly depopulating the earth of the rest of it's species.
A species becomes extinct every 20 minutes.
In 300 years, half of all species will be extinct.
So, in about 475 years, all species, besides humans, will be extinct.
And apparently nothing happens to them when they die, huh?
What happens when humans kill each other and no life is left except a couple of bushes?
Then what? -.-
Then another big bang occurs and bacteria magically comes to existence and uses something it doesn't have to make more and more complicated bacteria that can't possibly be made with the nothingness it has at hand?
Then they turn into...?
A fish?
Then a monkey?
Then a person?
Then they die and become a tree?
Then the tree gets cut down and is printed as a Bible?
Then people are brought to Christ as a result.


Fact..
There used to be less species..

During dinosaur times, there were LESS species that there are now, and DIFFERENT species than there are now.
Unless that one-in-a-few-thousand-billion chance of a beneficial mutation occured MULTIPLE times, AND SOMEHOW STUCK TO A SPECIE'S GENOME, none of what now exists could be in existence.


Reasoning... (By the way, I made Allie contradict herself. Then I recall her defending her contradiction. /Sigh.):
Make them contradict themselves:

-Them:  "Evolution:  The process by which a species gains what is needs to survive."
-Me:  "Then why do we have planes?  Where are our wings?"
-Them:  "Planes are a luxury for travel, not a necessity."
-Me:  "Well, if "evolution" is 'gaining what is needed to survive,' Then why DO we have planes?  We don't NEED them, therefore the ability and knowledge to make them shouldn't have been "evolved."


Fact....
Mutations:

There are no half-"evolved" species, and there are 0 beneficial mutations. If there were beneficial mutations, there is virtually no chance that that mutation would get passed on to the mutated being's offspring, resulting in the loss of that single beneficial mutation..


Facts AND reasoning based on studies and logic:
The Giraffe and Bombadeer Beetle account:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRcOxCczzus
"The currently existing animals shown in this video had to have all parts of their body at the same time to have the ability to exist without dying."
Therefore, if "evolution" were correct, the giraffe would not exist. Why? Because evolution occurs over time and parts would have been added over time. This means that they would not have had all the necessary parts at the same time, resulting in the animals almost immediate death and then it's extinction.



/Sigh

Reading this, its blatantly obvious that you are far under-educated regarding this subject matter. You are merely brushing the surface of complexities you've yet to be taught//understand. I can take this no further with you because you will simply repeat the same statements with your erroneous mindset.

Quote from: Xrow on September 21, 2010, 09:48:59 PM
Haha, Opti has been losing arguments on this topic to me for years bro :)

Ughm...

Each and every one of your statements have been vague with little factually based subject matter accepted by the academic community of the world. If you want to discuss who is winning this debate, one only needs to look as far as empirically based evidence. If this occurs, then the "win" falls into my hands...

King, in all honesty, if you present your argument in a debate forum of any kind, you will be laughed at to the door and then rudely asked to leave.

Quote from: Xrow on September 21, 2010, 10:28:42 PM
Ya huh.
Evolution says that the big bang occurred out of nothing (Even though there's no possible way it could have. There was just that - nothing - to make it happen), And that's how the evolutionary process began.
Which is so stupid and full of holes it isn't even funny.


None of you have given proof either. /Facepalm. -.-
And Opti's "proof" was artificial selection, not natural selection.
That's like planting a ficus in the Sahara (natural selection) and a ficus under perfect conditions (artificial selection), then comparing them.
"What is this I don't even.."

1. No, creation cannot be proven.
2. Neither can evolution.
3. Evolution can and has been disproven.

K there I win. >_>..


Oh come awnn defend yourself D:

Logical fallacy seems to be confluent in each of your posts...

Quote from: Jeffalo13 on September 21, 2010, 09:25:07 PM
All evolution and creationism depend on are if you're super religious or not .-..

Well, according to biblical tenants, one better follow the creationist proposition fairly stringently .

OR, just sin until one is on their death bed, then accept Jesus Christ...

You see, an agnostic that devotes his life to aiding third world countries cannot enter the gates of heaven because he has not accepted Christ; however, a man that has raped and murdered a thousand children can simply ask forgiveness at the end of his life and receive the glory of a man who has lived righteously all his life.

\****ing rediclous

Quote from: Xrow on September 21, 2010, 08:39:51 PM
Crevolution.

Well, since pure creationist theory has been torn to shambles, time to move onto "crevolution" >.>.

Quote from: Xrow on September 21, 2010, 08:55:48 PM
o.O Because I don't agree with "evolution's" entire theory.

I mean,

1. There are two tribes.
   In the first, everyone is born strong and good-looking.
   In the second, everyone is born scrawny and homely.
2. The first tribe flourishes because of their natural gifts.
3. The second tribe slowly dies off over a period of time because they are not physically or mentally adequate.
4. When the second tribe is extinct, the first tribe flourishes more than ever.
5. Each new generation exercises more than the last, and becomes more fit and more desirable than the last.
6. They continue to flourish and grow.

^ To me, that is not evolution. That is mere logic and order.


But then,

1. A bunch of nothing in a black nothingness exploded and magically made the heavens and the earth and a a couple bacteria on the earth.
2. The bacteria somehow expands and develops.
3. eventually, natural selection causes them to become what we know today.

^ Although I left most of the specifics, that's just stupid..

In a "dumbed-down" diction, this is evolution, despite if "you think" otherwise.

You're coming along nicely -- there is hope for you yet XD. The second thought can be explained with the following example (I don't have much time so Ill put this simply): Lets transport a Toyota Tundra (impossible, however relevant for your understanding) back to the time of the neanderthals. In their language, ask them to explain the mechanisms of the components -- a simple enough answer would follow: a dumbfound one. What I'm saying here is that human knowledge is ever expanding. Similar to the time of the neanderthals, there is subject matter that has yet to be understood; however, this does not mean that it won't be understood. Sure enough, in time, the predecessors to the human race became such, and created what we now call a truck. With time, all things are possible, including the understanding of what we now cannot understand. The second and third question within your second paragraph can be explained completely and have been validated experimentally (despite what you are telling yourself). The first question is posed in the form of a theory -- refer to the beginning of this paragraph regarding time and understanding.

THINK logically, my friend.

Quote from: Xrow on September 21, 2010, 08:46:01 PM
Oh hush yo mout boi.
I understand it, I just don't agree with it.
[)4[Y]N that was annoying >_>

And no, it's just a thought lol.

Opti... doublesigh..

Bluntly stated, why not devote your life to something meaningful instead of indulging yourself in children's fables? So much more can be achieved (human benefit) in absence of religion.

Quote from: Xrow on September 21, 2010, 08:42:19 PM
Creation + Evolution = Crevolution

In short, God created the Heavens and the hearth and all biotic and abiotic things.  These creations, through natural selection by superiority, evolved, in a way, into more adept beings and continue to do so.


Discuss.

Is this your new rationalization for what we've been talking about in the evolution thread?

King...sigh.

Simply because you cannot understand something, doesn't warrant an immediate attribution to a "god" like being. There is beauty in the unknown -- embrace it. This parallels my father's beliefs entirely. He cannot do-away with his religious upbringing; moreover, because he has come to understand the scientific rational, he merged the two into something he felt comfortable with. Not giving up his religious past and coming to terms with factual evidence enabled a peace of mind.

SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTHS!

XD

Quote from: iridion3 on September 21, 2010, 11:59:20 AM
wait
is opti's name tyler

Yes, sir!

Quote from: Xrow on September 21, 2010, 01:45:37 AM
Well then technically it does exist. But it doesn't exist in the most well-known version.
(Beneficial genetic mutations lead to more adept creatures)
Nope nope nope.


Don't you judge me  


LOLTRU.
Prick is my fave :3.

Given your lack-luster response, I'm willing to bet something sparked inside that mind of yours. Now, this is very important: don't run from this light, pursue it. Don't choose to remain ignorant because of fear -- consume it. I was once a republican Christian. Never again -- I didn't run. There is happiness outside the binding walls of religion, king. I would argue a greater happiness, a freedom of sorts (even with this freedom, morality still pervades itself).

I'd base, but g/f is here D:.

Quote from: Xrow on September 21, 2010, 12:56:26 AM
Genetic mutation through controlled conditions in a laboratory =/= "evolution" buddy.

Are you denying mutations occur randomly throughout time within nature?

Obviously not, since you've admitted that mutation is possible in a laboratory environment; extending this logic, I'm assuming you will submit that it is possible within a natural environment. If mutation leads to change and nature selects for this change over time, then how sir, are you denying evolution outright, as this, by definition, is evolution. If I can manipulate a genome to force a new trait; therefore, leading to a new species (your concern earlier), then what is stopping nature from selecting for this mutation that occurs randomly (1 in 1MB [1,000,000 base pairs]).

The answer: nothing. Maybe you now understand? Probably not.

Quote from: Optimism on September 19, 2010, 09:36:37 PM
King, what if I told you that I modified the genome of a select organism that facilitated the generation of a three-valve heart (the previous generation had a two valve heart). This process has the potential to take place over millions of years, given that the coding sequence must mutate for the production of a multicomplex protein//signaling pathway to promote such an event. However, within the laboratory, this can be forced within a single generation given that the coding sequence is known and can be readily duplicated to force such an occurrence. If nature selected for this variant upon its fruition, then this would be beneficial and maintain itself within the species' populous.

MUMBO JUMBO RIGHT?

WRONG -- I've done it.

King, mind elaborating on the following? If you understand the tenants of evolution, then, most certainly, explaining away the above will be difficult. Given that you don't understand the tenets of evolution, this won't be a problem for you. I've forced an expedited form of what would inevitably become an evolutionary process over millions (perhaps billions) of years given mutation of the specific base pairs required for the aforementioned protein code sequence//signaling pathway to facilitate the production of a tri-valve heart.

This isn't some made up process; I'VE DONE THIS IN THE LABORATORY...

Apparently, there is a bit of god in all of us, humans .