[Xrow]

Then why have you not proven me wrong?  

If you make the outlandish claim, then provide substantial evidence. If you can't, then stop believing in idiocy.

1. The universe is finite.
See: Einstein's Theory of Relativity, Radiation Afterglow, Hubble's Red Shift, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

2. All that is finite must have a cause.
See: The Law of Causality, Infinite Regression.

3. Because the universe is finite, the universe must have had a cause.

4. The universe exploded from a point of nothing.
See: Radiation Afterglow, Hubble's Red Shift, Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, NASA's COBE Missions, NASA's WMAP Missions, Great Galaxy Seeds.
http://i56.tinypic.com/2h5vbzl.jpg

5. Nothing creates nothing; nothing can create itself; an effect cannot precede its cause.

6. Time, space and mass/energy (matter) came into existence simultaneously.
One cannot exist without the others. See: Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

7. Because nature did not exist before the big bang (remember, a cause cannot follow its effect), nature could not have created the universe.
Nothing existed before the big bang, an effect cannot precede its cause.

8. Therefore something outside of nature (supernatural) must have been the cause of the first cause - the universe.
SUPERNATURAL: Definition: (1) : of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

9. This supernatural cause must have been self-existent, timeless, nonspatial, and immaterial.
Nothing existed before the big bang, an effect cannot precede its cause. See: Hubble's Red Shift, Einstine's Theory of Relativity, Cosmic Background Radiation, Radiation Afterglow, Great Galaxy Seeds, NASA's COBE Missions, NASA's WMAP Missions.

10. Because nothing can cause itself, the first cause must have been uncaused (timeless).
Nothing existed before the big bang, nothing can cause itself, an effect cannot precede its cause.

11. This uncaused causer must be:
a. Self-existent, nonspatial, timeless and immaterial (because the first cause created time, space and matter, the first cause must be outside of time, space and matter).
b. Unimaginably powerful, to create the entire universe out of nothing.
c. Supremely intelligent, to design the universe with such incredible precision (see: the Anthropic Principle).
d. Personal, in order to choose to convert a state of nothingness into the time-space-material universe (an impersonal choice has no
ability to make choices).




"Only a rookie who knows nothing about science
would say science takes away from faith. If you really
study science, it will take you closer to God."
-Nanoscientist James Tour of Rice University



Note: I did not mention God or the Bible within my argument.
-----
My faith does not substantiate my argument; my argument substantiates my faith.

Thank you.

[Optimism]

Then why have you not proven me wrong?  

If you make the outlandish claim, then provide substantial evidence. If you can't, then stop believing in idiocy.

1. The universe is finite.
See: Einstein's Theory of Relativity, Radiation Afterglow, Hubble's Red Shift, the First Law of Thermodynamics, the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Unknown.

2. All that is finite must have a cause.
See: The Law of Causality, Infinite Regression.

Logical fallacy d/t proof 1

3. Because the universe is finite, the universe must have had a cause.

Logical fallacy d/t proof 1

4. The universe exploded from a point of nothing.
See: Radiation Afterglow, Hubble's Red Shift, Einstein's Theory of General Relativity, NASA's COBE Missions, NASA's WMAP Missions, Great Galaxy Seeds.
http://i56.tinypic.com/2h5vbzl.jpg

The origins of the reaction that gave causation to the explosion are unknown; therefore, this claim is a logical fallacy.

5. Nothing creates nothing; nothing can create itself; an effect cannot precede its cause.

Granted.

6. Time, space and mass/energy (matter) came into existence simultaneously.
One cannot exist without the others. See: Einstein's Theory of Relativity.

Yet again, unknown.

7. Because nature did not exist before the big bang (remember, a cause cannot follow its effect), nature could not have created the universe.
Nothing existed before the big bang, an effect cannot precede its cause.

Surely, nature is not understood in its entirety, especially regarding the origins of this universe, and what possibly is located outside this universe (an external cause -- may or may not have been a god).

8. Therefore something outside of nature (supernatural) must have been the cause of the first cause - the universe.
SUPERNATURAL: Definition: (1) : of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

A complete logical fallacy based on the aforementioned.

9. This supernatural cause must have been self-existent, timeless, nonspatial, and immaterial.
Nothing existed before the big bang, an effect cannot precede its cause. See: Hubble's Red Shift, Einstine's Theory of Relativity, Cosmic Background Radiation, Radiation Afterglow, Great Galaxy Seeds, NASA's COBE Missions, NASA's WMAP Missions.

Again, where are you jumping to these conclusions with such unfounded propositions? What skewed logic...

10. Because nothing can cause itself, the first cause must have been uncaused (timeless).
Nothing existed before the big bang, nothing can cause itself, an effect cannot precede its cause.

Logical fallacy. What skewed logic...

"Nothing existed before the big bang". Man, bro, you seriously don't understand what is fact and what is opinion here, do you. YOU DON'T KNOW THIS.

11. This uncaused causer must be:
a. Self-existent, nonspatial, timeless and immaterial (because the first cause created time, space and matter, the first cause must be outside of time, space and matter).
b. Unimaginably powerful, to create the entire universe out of nothing.
c. Supremely intelligent, to design the universe with such incredible precision (see: the Anthropic Principle).
d. Personal, in order to choose to convert a state of nothingness into the time-space-material universe (an impersonal choice has no
ability to make choices).

I'll grant you, for the sake of argument, all of your propositions as truth. Now, there is still nothing substantiating the Christian god from the over 300,000 other gods to exist throughout history. So, why maintain believe in a sole religion?

...


"Only a rookie who knows nothing about science
would say science takes away from faith. If you really
study science, it will take you closer to God."
-Nanoscientist James Tour of Rice University

God of the gaps.



Note: I did not mention God or the Bible within my argument.
-----
My faith does not substantiate my argument; my argument substantiates my faith.

Thank you.

Your faith does not substantiate your argument and your argument DOES NOT substantiate your faith (a belief in a sole religion). Skewed ****ing logic.

It is undetermined whether the universe is finite or infinite -- your proof falls apart at proof one (not to mention others fail to make logical sense, regardless).

Whether the universe is infinite or finite has been proven to the same extent as any religion. If you claim god to be infinite, then I shall claim the universe to be just this, infinite. If you label god as uncreated, then so shall I label the universe, uncreated.

Not to mention, you seriously have a giant wall to climb...still. For the sake of argument, I'll grant you all propositions posted here. Now, how again are you going to substantiate the sole christian god from a magical unicorn in a box as the universe's uncreated creator? lol. You have done nothing to substantiate your faith with regard to the specific religion you follow. Drop your religion, and become a deist and we can go from there. You still cling to Christianity because it makes you "feel good". Pathetic, in all honesty.

lol? Way to waste your time brah.

Carl Sagan on "God" and "gods"

OH SHI- look, one of the greatest astrophysicists of all time!?

[koolwolf2]

Opti is gotta point most of your opinions where based on the 1st one which is not a fact or isn't proven 0,0

[123bomb123]

u guise r los4rs!!!111

[Xrow]

Wow.
You are literally relentlessly and paralyzingly ****ing senseless and uneducated.

I GAVE PROOF WHY MY FIRST PREMISE WAS TRUE, LOOK IT THE **** UP.
Do some research you lazy prick.

Each of my premises is accurate.



Your perfectly fine with saying "OH SKEWED LOGIC THAR YOU ****ER" but you almost always lack a reason WHY.
****ing pathetic, Opti. I expected more.

[Optimism]

Wow.
You are literally relentlessly and paralyzingly ****ing senseless and uneducated.

I GAVE PROOF WHY MY FIRST PREMISE WAS TRUE, LOOK IT THE **** UP.
Do some research you lazy prick.

Each of my premises is accurate.



Your perfectly fine with saying "OH SKEWED LOGIC THAR YOU ****ER" but you almost always lack a reason WHY.
****ing pathetic, Opti. I expected more.

Regardless of where or how long I look, I will never find evidence substantiating that the universe is either infinite or finite. You fail to understand what qualifiers represent acceptable evidence. Talk to the nearest astrophysicist and they will tell you what I have. This is unknown.

Maybe you are the one that should do research before wasting time making a proposition that falls on its face upon statement number one...

wai so mad brah?

Also, this is your verbal warning before I actually warn you. Enough with the ad hominid.

[123bomb123]

[Optimism]

lol .

[Xrow]

I request this thread be locked.

[Optimism]

Done.