[Allie]

There's been a lot of talk (especially because of Cooky) that some staff members have been breaking rules by lying.
However, I would like to take the time to mention that staff members being verbally dishonest is not against the rules. Being honest is not part of their staff duty -- in fact, high staff members (some GMs and all Admins) purposely lie to you to keep things in Administration pretty consistently, and we don't deny this. We've even had some members swear secrecy to Administration information, which we rarely give an honest answer to.

In short, as staff members we aren't always going to be honest with you, and in some cases us in Administration request our staff members to lie about some things. Reporting a staff member for lying is as fruitless as reporting them for having orange text -- it's just not against the rules.

However, harassment takes a different charge. Just because you're spreading the truth around does not make harassment okay. If someone did something embarrassingly at a party, and you tell EVERYONE about it, that is strong harassment. Same thing here.

Thanks for those of you who actually read it.

[Xx Itz Ian]

so ur saying...
lying is cool?

[Allie]

so ur saying...
lying is cool?

I'm saying that lying isn't against the rules, even for staff members.

[Xx Itz Ian]

so this rule isn't just for staff, also we as users are allowed to lie about prices/ items and stuff like that?

[Allie]

so this rule isn't just for staff, also we as users are allowed to lie about prices/ items and stuff like that?

No, because that is scamming.
There's a difference.

[Dillh]

So your saying, you don't care if your staff members are not being true to you.

[ZeroUH]

Just saw Cooky's case. "Promisse me that you'll tell Tricky that I'll be a good mod mimimimimi". And he made 2 videos of that stupid thing trying to put Selene in trouble. OH WTF! Stop being a attention whore and go play. Don't throw your rocks on Selene by telling that she lied. I known normal members that lie trying to being cool or w/e...

[KillerPig]

so this rule isn't just for staff, also we as users are allowed to lie about prices/ items and stuff like that?

No, because that is scamming.
There's a difference.

no
Scamming is lying

[Allie]

There is an agreed amount of trust between any two players, that someone wouldn't lie to you about a specific thing.
For example, asking you how to obtain an item. If you blatantly lie to them, you're an asshole. You're not breaking rules, but you're still an asshole.
On some things, like the things we keep in Administration, we aren't expected to tell you everything. It's like the government hiding things, we just would prefer to keep information private, especially to benefit the community (and not to benefit other communities).
We aren't expected to make black lies to players, but staff are expected to make white lies - if they slip up and tell a black lie, that makes them an asshole, not a rule breaker, and the severity of the black lie is what determines if they are worthy of staff or not.

[loewe98]

So your saying, you don't care if your staff members are not being true to you.

So they are lien to us and we need to accept that , uh cool o,o..

[Materger]

So your saying, you don't care if your staff members are not being true to you.

So they are lien to us and we need to accept that , uh cool o,o..

People lie to you everyday rather you know they're lying to you or not, it happens everyday and you accept the lies that you're not aware are in fact lies. ^~^

[Iridion]

So your saying, you don't care if your staff members are not being true to you.

So they are lien to us and we need to accept that , uh cool o,o..

People lie to you everyday rather you know they're lying to you or not, it happens everyday and you accept the lies that you're not aware are in fact lies. ^~^

wow great point
just like deleting posts. thats also great.

[mo9]

i find this amusing.

[loewe98]

So your saying, you don't care if your staff members are not being true to you.

So they are lien to us and we need to accept that , uh cool o,o..

People lie to you everyday rather you know they're lying to you or not, it happens everyday and you accept the lies that you're not aware are in fact lies. ^~^

True , but how do u feel when ppl lies to you ;f? In fact maybe it's better that the staff lies
sometimes i totally agreed whit them but like you're saying ppl lies every day to you and sometimes that really sucks ;d .

[Materger]

True , but how do u feel when ppl lies to you ;f? In fact maybe it's better that the staff lies
sometimes i totally agreed whit them but like you're saying ppl lies every day to you and sometimes that really sucks ;d .

When you find out someone you trust lies to you, it's not a good feeling I assume, but some lies are necessary, like keeping terrifying or sad news from someone you care about etc...

[leapman]

what did she mean by "We've even had some members swear secrecy to Administration information" I am confused.

[Materger]

what did she mean by "We've even had some members swear secrecy to Administration information" I am confused.

I think it means we've had member promise to keep  "Administration information" secret.

[leapman]

Okay...Sorry zom

[Allie]

what did she mean by "We've even had some members swear secrecy to Administration information" I am confused.

For example, Adamp knows of a future update planned for later this month.
However, he promised not to tell anyone either in case we choose not to do it or if it changes a lot before we get it done.

[Xx Itz Ian]

i know more about that update then adamp does.

[Toast]

what did she mean by "We've even had some members swear secrecy to Administration information" I am confused.

For example, Adamp knows of a future update planned for later this month.
However, he promised not to tell anyone either in case we choose not to do it or if it changes a lot before we get it done.

Everyone might bombard Adamp about the update now. :p

[leapman]

what did she mean by "We've even had some members swear secrecy to Administration information" I am confused.

For example, Adamp knows of a future update planned for later this month.
However, he promised not to tell anyone either in case we choose not to do it or if it changes a lot before we get it done.

Everyone might bombard Adamp about the update now. :p

He he

[KillerPig]

There is an agreed amount of trust between any two players, that someone wouldn't lie to you about a specific thing.
For example, asking you how to obtain an item. If you blatantly lie to them, you're an asshole. You're not breaking rules, but you're still an asshole.
On some things, like the things we keep in Administration, we aren't expected to tell you everything. It's like the government hiding things, we just would prefer to keep information private, especially to benefit the community (and not to benefit other communities).
We aren't expected to make black lies to players, but staff are expected to make white lies - if they slip up and tell a black lie, that makes them an asshole, not a rule breaker, and the severity of the black lie is what determines if they are worthy of staff or not.

From what I've read, Selene did blatantly tell a black lie to Cooky about "putting in a good word to yz" or someshit.

So what are you saying?
Selene lied, so she's an asshole. BUT because the the lie wasn't severe enough, she's still worthy of staff? Yo either I'm not getting something or that's ****ed up

purposely lie to you to keep things in Administration pretty consistently

can you reword this idk wat u mean

[MagicXR]

So basically if I tell pig that I will give him membership for 10m gigas and he gives me the 10m gigas but I dont give him the membership I lied so its ok. But I scammed which is not okay. But I lied so its all good

[leapman]

Magicxr whats up!!!

[Materger]

So basically if I tell pig that I will give him membership for 10m gigas and he gives me the 10m gigas but I dont give him the membership I lied so its ok. But I scammed which is not okay. But I lied so its all good

Scamming and lying are different, although you may assist a scam with a lie, like saying a lv1 set cost 600mil( yes I know, a silly example).
Nobody said lying was "all good", Allie said its not against the rules though. ^~^

[hawk5005]

"But I scammed which is not okay. But I lied so its all good"
That made no sense whatsoever.
Why does nobody comprehend the difference between scam and lie.

[MagicXR]

"But I scammed which is not okay. But I lied so its all good"
That made no sense whatsoever.
Why does nobody comprehend the difference between scam and lie.

Because there isn't a big difference between lying and scamming. If you think about it scamming is lying. Lying is not against the rules

[hawk5005]

If you scam someone you take something unfair. You gain an unfair economic advantage. That is against the rules while telling someone that you're gonna put a good word for them and not doing it, isn't against the rules since you gain no economic advantage.

[MagicXR]

Yea I know that but I'm saying that there are like two aspects of scamming and one of them is just like lying. Me not giving you something when I said you would and you payed for it is me lying to you but it is also scamming. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

[Materger]

Because there isn't a big difference between lying and scamming. If you think about it scamming is lying. Lying is not against the rules

Scamming is different, lets say I "Materger" were to lie and say the grass is "blue and yellow" did I scam anyone?

Now lets say I'm going to sell you some grass for $1,000 dollars(knowing that there is grass all around use, I didn't "lie", I just told you how much I was selling grass for).

^~^

[frog]

what about if i said SELLING MEMBERSHIP 10m each and after i get the gigas i say "I LIED!" so i didn't break a rule

[hawk5005]

Yea I know that but I'm saying that there are like two aspects of scamming and one of them is just like lying. Me not giving you something when I said you would and you payed for it is me lying to you but it is also scamming. Do you get what I'm trying to say?

I get it, but what was the whole point of that. Just repeating what we've previously said?

what about if i said SELLING MEMBERSHIP 10m each and after i get the gigas i say "I LIED!" so i didn't break a rule

Are you serious? Can you not read the above posts? We've been trying to prove the difference between lie and scam for the past hours.

[Eat4two]

what about if i said SELLING MEMBERSHIP 10m each and after i get the gigas i say "I LIED!" so i didn't break a rule

How about re-read the thread and comments and you'll maybe, just maybe perceive it.
Either you're dumb or just pretending to be.

[KillerPig]

Why does nobody comprehend the difference between scam and lie.

because there is no difference

[Selene]

Scamming is a scheme/plan to defraud someone in order to make a profit.
Lying is not telling the truth or making a false statement.

[Materger]

Why does nobody comprehend the difference between scam and lie.

because there is no difference

Scamming is different, lets say I "Materger" were to lie and say the grass is "blue and yellow" did I scam anyone?

Now lets say I'm going to sell you some grass for $1,000 dollars(knowing that there is grass all around use, I didn't "lie", I just told you how much I was selling grass for).

^~^

Joo sure of dat my good sir?   

[hawk5005]

Why does nobody comprehend the difference between scam and lie.

because there is no difference

Are you serious? Can you not read the above posts? We've been trying to prove the difference between lie and scam for the past hours.

If you scam someone you take something unfair. You gain an unfair economic advantage. That is against the rules while telling someone that you're gonna put a good word for them and not doing it, isn't against the rules since you gain no economic advantage.

Read it, 5 times, 10 times, until you understand.

[ghostkid17]

It's basically scamming is lieing but lieing is not scamming.(but it is in certain situations)

[KillerPig]

no u guys are blindly spewing shit like always lulll

Jake Holten says
ok can some1 clarify this for me
is scamming = lying

Dewo says
no

Jake Holten says
y not
explain pls

Dewo says
you can lie
without scamming
you can lie without scamming
but you can't scam without lying


Jake Holten says
but u cant scam without lying

Dewo says
basically
lel

Jake Holten says
ya
so scamming is lying

Dewo says
well
it assists you in scamming

Jake Holten says
no
it is scamming
if i suddenly canceled a trade after i got item and was like lol fku
that lying
i lied about giving u wat i promised

[Materger]

Scamming may be assisted by a lie thus giving it some related similarity, but think about it like this when you lie, do you always scam? or when you scam do you always lie? Not always so it makes the two different.

Read the example I posted and the explanations of my fellow staff comrades. ^~^


Sir Pig, did I lie when I used this example?  ---> Materger- "Now lets say I'm going to sell you some grass for $1,000 dollars(knowing that there is grass all around us, I didn't "lie", I just told you how much I was selling grass for)."

[KillerPig]

Scamming my be assisted by a lie thus giving it some related similarity, but think about it like this when you lie, do you always scam? or when you scam do you always lie? Not always so it makes the two different.

thats not the point...

scamming IS a form of lying

Yes, we get it. Lying isnt scamming.
but scamming is lying

[hawk5005]

Yet scamming is prohibited while lying isn't. If it was for us to censor lying it would be censoring free speech. Do you question every single game that has scamming against the rules?
@Pig you should know better than asking Dewo about these kind of stuff.

[MagicXR]

Scamming my be assisted by a lie thus giving it some related similarity, but think about it like this when you lie, do you always scam? or when you scam do you always lie? Not always so it makes the two different.

thats not the point...

scamming IS a form of lying

Yes, we get it. Lying isnt scamming.
but scamming is lying

[Materger]

Scamming my be assisted by a lie thus giving it some related similarity, but think about it like this when you lie, do you always scam? or when you scam do you always lie? Not always so it makes the two different.

thats not the point...

scamming IS a form of lying

Yes, we get it. Lying isnt scamming.
but scamming is lying

KillerPig-"SCAMMING IS LYING"

"Now lets say I'm going to sell you some grass for $1,000 dollars(knowing that there is grass all around use, I didn't "lie", I just told you how much I was selling grass for)."

^Scamming without lying?  or I'm I going crazy? Lolz

[hawk5005]

Yes we get it, scamming is lying but scamming also gets you an unfair economic advantage while lying doesn't give you any economic profit.
Seriously, is it so hard?

[MagicXR]

Yes we get it, scamming is lying but scamming also gets you an unfair economic advantage while lying doesn't give you any economic profit.
Seriously, is it so hard?

You just admitted it. So if scamming is lying and scamming is against the rules... Why would people get in trouble if they they scammed? I mean it was only a lie

[hawk5005]

Read the words in bold. I implore you. "and" is the keyword. Scamming cannot exist without getting an unfair advantage.

[Eat4two]

"Sir Pig" and MagicXR, it is a good time to stop now ^~^.
Follow Revo's steps, he has been silenced for a while now cause he realised he was wrong.

[Optimism]

In short, simply because someone is labeled as "staff", doesn't mean they are always going to be perfect. Expect mistakes. Don't expect us to demote any one staff member for making these mistakes.

[leapman]

I can tell this post is going to end in a argument .

[KillerPig]

"Now lets say I'm going to sell you some grass for $1,000 dollars(knowing that there is grass all around use, I didn't "lie", I just told you how much I was selling grass for)."

^Scamming without lying?  or I'm I going crazy? Lolz

...
thats not even a good example. thats just you saying "OK GUYS IM SELLING GRASS FOR A RIDICULOUS PRICE COME AND BUY".

maybe i worded this wrong
LYING IS NOT SCAMMING
BUT SCAMMING IS A FORM OF LYING

"Sir Pig" and MagicXR, it is a good time to stop now ^~^.
Follow Revo's steps, he has been silenced for a while now cause he realised he was wrong.

im not wrong

[Materger]

...
thats not even a good example. thats just you saying "OK GUYS IM SELLING GRASS FOR A RIDICULOUS PRICE COME AND BUY".

maybe i worded this wrong
LYING IS NOT SCAMMING
BUT SCAMMING IS A FORM OF LYING

Ok, then a better example for sir Pig, lets say Matty go's  to Target to buy a pair of pants that cost $10 bucks at most stores but at target the same pair of pants cost $34.99( is this not a form of scamming)?
but nobody lied, they just gave me a set price for their product.


Materger-"Scamming may be assisted by a lie thus giving it some related similarity(to lying), but think about it like this when you lie, do you always scam? or when you scam do you always lie? Not always so it makes the two different. "

[KillerPig]

...
thats not even a good example. thats just you saying "OK GUYS IM SELLING GRASS FOR A RIDICULOUS PRICE COME AND BUY".

maybe i worded this wrong
LYING IS NOT SCAMMING
BUT SCAMMING IS A FORM OF LYING

Ok, then a better example for sir Pig, lets say Matty go's  to Target to buy a pair of pants that cost $10 bucks at most stores but at target the same pair of pants cost $34.99( is this not a form of scamming)?
but nobody lied they just gave me a set price for their product.

^~^

thats not scamming
again, thats just target saying "OK IM SELLING PANTS FOR HIGH PRICE"

that's because there's no official price for that pair of pants. a store can make the price watever they want

[Materger]

...
thats not even a good example. thats just you saying "OK GUYS IM SELLING GRASS FOR A RIDICULOUS PRICE COME AND BUY".

maybe i worded this wrong
LYING IS NOT SCAMMING
BUT SCAMMING IS A FORM OF LYING

Ok, then a better example for sir Pig, lets say Matty go's  to Target to buy a pair of pants that cost $10 bucks at most stores but at target the same pair of pants cost $34.99( is this not a form of scamming)?
but nobody lied they just gave me a set price for their product.

^~^

thats not scamming
again, thats just target saying "OK IM SELLING PANTS FOR HIGH PRICE"

that's because there's no official price for that pair of pants. a store can make the price watever they want

Indeed like there's no official price for a +7 set, someone can sell it for 800mil when most ppl sell it for 200-260mil , but that dude selling it for 800mil aint scamming at all. I see your point.

"Scamming cannot exist without getting an unfair advantage."    Hmmmmmm O_o

[KillerPig]

lets say me and you (mat) agree that ill sell u my bladium set for 90 mill gigas.
im unable to come on so i say "mat pls gift it to me im not able to come on"
you gift it to me. but when you do, i say "lol fku idiot i was joking"

i scammed you and lied to you

[Selene]

lets say me and you (mat) agree that ill sell u my bladium set for 90 mill gigas.
im unable to come on so i say "mat pls gift it to me im not able to come on"
you gift it to me. but when you do, i say "lol fku idiot i was joking"

i scammed you and lied to you

You would get banned for scamming.

Scamming is a scheme/plan to defraud someone in order to make a profit.
Lying is not telling the truth or making a false statement.

[Materger]

lets say me and you (mat) agree that ill sell u my bladium set for 90 mill gigas.
im unable to come on so i say "mat pls gift it to me im not able to come on"
you gift it to me. but when you do, i say "lol fku idiot i was joking"

i scammed you and lied to you

Naw, pig I get what chu mean but what I'm trying to say is that one can scam without lying and while lying as well.

[KillerPig]

You would get banned for scamming.

...
ya i was giving an example of how scamming cannot exist without lying

one can scam without lying

how?
both examples u said i just disproved lol

[Materger]

You would get banned for scamming.

...
ya i was giving an example of how scamming cannot exist without lying

one can scam without lying

how?
both examples u said i just disproved lol

Perhaps you didn't read or comprehend what I explained, but I will leave it at that.
I never saw you disprove my example, you just used an example of how you can scam and lie..... o_O
Which was in fact pretty random looking to me after what I posted.

[KillerPig]

i disproved ur examples by explaining how they werent scamming...

[Materger]

i disproved ur examples by explaining how they werent scamming...

Lolwat?!?! Where?!?!? Never saw that anywhere.

What I posted----->

Materger- "Indeed like there's no official price for a +7 set, someone can sell it for 800mil when most ppl sell it for 200-260mil , but that dude selling it for 800mil aint scamming at all. I see your point.

"Scamming cannot exist without getting an unfair advantage."    Hmmmmmm O_o"


What sir Pig posted(right after)---->

KillerPig-" lets say me and you (mat) agree that ill sell u my bladium set for 90 mill gigas.
im unable to come on so i say "mat pls gift it to me im not able to come on"
you gift it to me. but when you do, i say "lol fku idiot i was joking"

i scammed you and lied to you"  
^that explains what? that you can lie and scam (something we all know can be done.)

In which way shape or form did your respond disprove my example? Please inform me, my good sir.

[KillerPig]

"Now lets say I'm going to sell you some grass for $1,000 dollars(knowing that there is grass all around use, I didn't "lie", I just told you how much I was selling grass for)."

^Scamming without lying?  or I'm I going crazy? Lolz

...
thats not even a good example. thats just you saying "OK GUYS IM SELLING GRASS FOR A RIDICULOUS PRICE COME AND BUY".

Ok, then a better example for sir Pig, lets say Matty go's  to Target to buy a pair of pants that cost $10 bucks at most stores but at target the same pair of pants cost $34.99( is this not a form of scamming)?
but nobody lied they just gave me a set price for their product.

^~^

thats not scamming
again, thats just target saying "OK IM SELLING PANTS FOR HIGH PRICE"

that's because there's no official price for that pair of pants. a store can make the price watever they want

[Materger]

Materger- "Indeed like there's no official price for a +7 set, someone can sell it for 800mil when most ppl sell it for 200-260mil , but that dude selling it for 800mil aint scamming at all. I see your point.

"Scamming cannot exist without getting an unfair advantage."    Hmmmmmm O_o"


Something looks pretty fishy here, I must say.

[KillerPig]

"Scamming cannot exist without lying." 

ftfy 

[Materger]

"Scamming cannot exist without lying." 

ftfy 

If there's any attempt to deceive or mislead someone at all its a scam. There is no requirement for lying. It's not a hard concept to understand,sir Pig. ;o

[KillerPig]

IMO! I think that there should be a rule which states something along the lines of "No lying to another player/staff unless necessary". That would mean if a staff had a secret about a new item coming out, then they would be able to lie and say "no its not going to be released" or something. But if they promised a favor i.e. "yes I will tell __ that you would be a good mod" and then lied about that, that would be against rules.

noooo

"Scamming cannot exist without lying."

ftfy 

If there's any attempt to deceive or mislead someone at all its a scam. There is no requirement for lying

dafuqqq is this
thats not what scamming is

scamming is a form a lying omg

[mic99]

[leapman]

let me say one thing this topic has so many lies in it ....

[KillerPig]

There is an agreed amount of trust between any two players, that someone wouldn't lie to you about a specific thing.
For example, asking you how to obtain an item. If you blatantly lie to them, you're an asshole. You're not breaking rules, but you're still an asshole.
On some things, like the things we keep in Administration, we aren't expected to tell you everything. It's like the government hiding things, we just would prefer to keep information private, especially to benefit the community (and not to benefit other communities).
We aren't expected to make black lies to players, but staff are expected to make white lies - if they slip up and tell a black lie, that makes them an asshole, not a rule breaker, and the severity of the black lie is what determines if they are worthy of staff or not.

From what I've read, Selene did blatantly tell a black lie to Cooky about "putting in a good word to yz" or someshit.

So what are you saying?
Selene lied, so she's an asshole. BUT because the the lie wasn't severe enough, she's still worthy of staff? Yo either I'm not getting something or that's ****ed up

purposely lie to you to keep things in Administration pretty consistently

can you reword this idk wat u mean

[Pokeh]

i get it

A LIE

ALLIE

[KillerPig]

no more stupid rules pls
we have enough of those as is

[Toast]

i get it

A LIE

ALLIE

haha your funny.  

[KillerPig]

YO GTFO SPAMMERS WOW U RUINED IT

[Xkiller712]

Understood.

[mic99]

._. i didnt mean for Allie.

[leapman]

._. i didnt mean for Allie.

Poke was just playing around if you really meant it for Allie it would have been more recognizable .

[Selene]

Stop going off-topic.

[MagicXR]

Pig, it's no use we cant win

[Allie]

Gonna lock. I should've known some of you would be outright retarded. You don't get a benefit derived from another players' pocket by lying. You get it by scamming. You lie in order to scam, but just because you can lie does not mean you can scam.