[Yz]

You refuse to believe the government lied to us, even though they've done it before.

WHAT? THEY LIED TO US? I thought they would tell the truth 100% of the time! We should start a riot! **** the government!

seriously what's the point in this. You'll never know, NEVER.

They may have done it, sure, but it's not anyone's place to say that they did, because very few people know whether or not the government actually did it.

debates are usually based on why you think something happened. can't really debate on something that there's a definite yes/no answer too

[JustRK]

you're telling me the president somehow managed to help a terrorist organization behind senates back?

I don't think I said anything about the government 'helping a terrorist organization'. Not sure where you got that from! I believe the US government commited a crime and killed thousands of their own people, that would make the US government the terrorists, wouldn't it?

So I'm closed minded because I know FACTS?

No, you're close minded because you refuse believe something could have happened while you were in the military without you knowing about it. You refuse to believe the government lied to us, even though they've done it before.

I'm pretty sure if the president decided he wanted to murder thousands of his own people and lie about it so he had reason to start a war (and get more of his own people killed), he wouldn't file any documents about it. He's not going to write down his plans and pass them around to everyone with top secret clearance. No one is that stupid. If you are going to commit the biggest crime in USA history, you don't write it down a piece of paper for it to get 'approved'.

Failure to document something as crazy as a decision to go to war or allowing someone to destroy anything in the US would be high treason and would be considered helping a terrorist organization smart one.

I've read all the files that have been kept secret from civilians like you. It's civilians like you who spew garbage and spread propaganda in the first place that increases the morale of the enemy. I'm not closed minded because I know almost every wrong doing, short coming and insane decision made by the government. You on the other hand have only have some belief that you can't prove and you keep saying the same thing to me. I'm far from close minded, but you, well you are a lot closer. Aside from seeing my squad die I've seen how creative these guys can get with improvised explosives. They didn't have just box cutters and they studied well. What ever gay movie you saw and article read you are blind and uneducated to underestimate someone as ambitious as the people who sought out to get revenge for what they believe was the wrong doing of the previous bush and clinton administration.

I know when my country sends in troops just as filler, to create hope for a nation just so they can face situations that are life or death. You? You're just some unknowing civilian and we keep it that way for a reason.

[Cooky]

seriously what's the point in this. You'll never know, NEVER.

Could be said for all conspiracy theories.

Its just something to think about.

debates are usually based on why you think something happened. can't really debate on something that there's a definite yes/no answer too

Well said Yz.

[JustRK]

You are fueling your point based on what? Your own assumption and some random articles you read on the internet?

Random articles, science, and history to be exact.

A few things that were reported to have happened on 9/11 are scientifically impossible. For example, the tower falling at free fall speed and turning into dust and shredded pieces of steel. Things don't turn to dust by falling. Things don't fall at free fall speed unless there is nothing blocking their fall, meaning there must have been explosives planted in the building (there is video proof that shows explosions coming from the build and multiple people including fire fighters reporting explosions) that blew up the building as it collapsed so there was no resistance as it fell.

And that's just the tip of the ice berg buddy.

You can save me the physics lesson I passed that college course ages ago. There's also science with evidence supporting another theory based on the blue prints of the actual twin towers which is more accurate than what you are saying. Because my department went through that evidence you stated and guess who created it? some sub-par civilian.

I could smash you in this debate all day. The tip of your ice berg melted it seems.

[Purple]

You refuse to believe the government lied to us, even though they've done it before.

WHAT? THEY LIED TO US? I thought they would tell the truth 100% of the time! We should start a riot! **** the government!

seriously what's the point in this. You'll never know, NEVER.

They may have done it, sure, but it's not anyone's place to say that they did, because very few people know whether or not the government actually did it.

debates are usually based on why you think something happened. can't really debate on something that there's a definite yes/no answer too

I was asking what's the point in debating 9/11, not what a debate consists of.

seriously what's the point in this. You'll never know, NEVER.

Could be said for all conspiracy theories.

Its just something to think about.

debates are usually based on why you think something happened. can't really debate on something that there's a definite yes/no answer too

Well said Yz.

It may be something to think about, but it's stupid to debate it when you aren't using facts and/or start to lie.

I'll give examples:

"The only ones who would know about it are the ones who did it, so they would be essentially turning themselves in. "

You don't know, stop acting like that's a fact.

"You think that the government lying to us so they have reason to start a war (which has happened in the past) is a conspiracy?"
Conspiracy:

A secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.
So yes.

"The government has lied to start wars before, and it shouldn't be a surprise that they went and did it again."
History doesn't always repeat itself.

"You refuse to believe the government lied to us, even though they've done it before."
History doesn't always repeat itself.

"A few things that were reported to have happened on 9/11 are scientifically impossible..."
Nobody knows EXACTLY what was on that plane, there could have been explosives.

Would do the same for JustRK but I don'tt wanna waste more time.

[Cooky]

I've read all the files that have been kept secret from civilians like you. It's civilians like you who spew garbage and spread propaganda in the first place that increases the morale of the enemy.

Its 'civilians like me' who the Marines fight for

I'm not closed minded because I know almost every wrong doing, short coming and insane decision made by the government.

Well there we go, your 'I was a marine so I would have known about it' argument is now out the window. Got any other arguments?

You on the other hand have only have some belief that you can't prove and you keep saying the same thing to me.

I don't keep saying the same thing over and over, I have touched on several points; science, history, etc whereas you keep talking about how you were a Marine, you have seen your squad die, and you know everything that ever happened during your time as a Marine. Which, if you read just above, is apparently not even true.

Aside from seeing my squad die I've seen how creative these guys can get with improvised explosives. They didn't have just box cutters and they studied well.

Are you suggested they snuck explosives onto the planes? What are you talking about?

What ever gay movie you saw and article read you are blind and uneducated to underestimate someone as ambitious as the people who sought out to get revenge for what they believe was the wrong doing of the previous bush and clinton administration.

It was actually a quote from a former Marine who was a State Governor and Presidential Candidate.

There's also science with evidence supporting another theory based on the blue prints of the actual twin towers which is more accurate than what you are saying.

What I said wasnt a theory, it was science. So somehow a theory is more accurate then actual science? That doesn't make sense. And even if what you are saying isn't a theory and is in fact accurate, how can it possibly be 'more accurate' then what I said? Science is science.

I could smash you in this debate all day. The tip of your ice berg melted it seems.

I didn't make this debate to have a winner and loser. I made it to have a nice fun debate. I think you should calm down and stop taking this so seriously. Besides, after this post of mine I would say you are not 'winning' anymore (if you ever were) as you no longer have an argument.

[JustRK]

everything dumb i said

"Almost" everything meaning there is no existing documentation that delves into inter-military co-ordination that pre-dates the world war 2 era. Sure I've fought for your rights and I've fought for people who've came up to me and called me a murderer when I've done no such thing. Also what you said is in fact a theory because the person just like the person who created the theory I saw did not have all the variables in place to make their statement a solid fact. And I didn't care about winning, I just wanted to disprove your conspiracy theory about how the government / the president was in on such a tragic event.

My facts about senate and the president along with what ever you'd need elaboration on easily beats what ever "what ifs" you hold. The whole marine argument was just to solidify the fact that what I was saying was indeed true and that I didn't just say what I read off the internet, but have in fact seen it first hand. What have you seen first hand? your computer screen kthnxbai.

[Cooky]

"Almost" everything meaning there is no existing documentation that delves into inter-military co-ordination that pre-dates the world war 2 era.

This argument you keep making constantly revolves around 'documentation'. If people are going to do something illegal, they aren't going to document it. You don't have to have been a Marine to know that. Do you think Richard Nixon documented the Watergate Scandal before he did it? Did he get permission to do it? Do you think he told all the Marines about the illegal act he was going to do? No, of course not.

   

Also what you said is in fact a theory because the person just like the person who created the theory I saw did not have all the variables in place to make their statement a solid fact.

Sorry but it was a fact, it was science. Watch a video of the tower falling, record the time, do the math. It fell at near free fall speed.

And I didn't care about winning

Then why would you say 'I could crush you in this debate all day long' ? You made it clear you were trying to 'win' this debate, don't go and lie about it.

My facts about senate and the president along with what ever you'd need elaboration on easily beats what ever "what ifs" you hold.

The biggest 'fact' you have given that directly relates to the 9/11 conspiracy is that while you were a Marine you never heard anything about it. That puts you in the same boat as me, and everyone else. That is why there's are conspiracy theories about it, because no one really knows what happened. If you were truly in a position in which you would have heard every single little detail about everything the government was doing, then it depresses me that you are sitting there at your computer arguing with a janitor on a video game message board and not doing much more impressive things with your life.

What have you seen first hand? your computer screen kthnxbai.

Ah.. the old
'let me go and ignore all the points you made in your last post, give my agenda, and say bye in an attempt to get in the last word'

I thought you were better then that RK.

Also, you Sir, are underestimating the power of the internet. You can research things on the internet very well now a days. Certainly I don't know as much as a former Marine like yourself, but in a few weeks of reading I can learn quite a lot.

[Purple]

Not everything on the internet is true  .

[Cooky]

Not everything on the internet is true  .

yeah, everyone already knows this

and we are communicating on the internet right now so everything we are saying could be a lie

so kind of a pointless thing to point out

[Materger]

               In my opinion I don't see why it couldn't have been set up by our own government since I'm sure they hold many shady secrets far beyond our reach.That being said so does every other government around the world.Not knowing what happened for sure that day just leads me to think of many hypotheses, maybe it was just a terrorist attack after all, but why was our security unable to detect nineteen people( hijackers)who perhaps were concealing weapons(I think it was a bomb if I'm not mistaken) onto a plane full of US citizens.Did our national security really lack the ability to detect the 19 people who got  aboard those planes who obviously had some sort of weapon to take the aircraft over .We don't know for sure what's  true unless we take part in it ourselves, but thinking about what might have happened is interesting.

Only four planes were taken over, if our security was so easy to breach why didn't they just have a mass attacks of lets say 10 or so planes?   I just enjoy reading w/e you guys have to say in your posts. *^*

[123bomb123]

I don't believe RK is/was a Marine.

[Yz]

I don't believe RK is/was a Marine.

i don't think he would have been told about something like 9/11 if he was

cuz that's the thing, if you were really let in on everything top secret, im sure you woulda seen/heard of some heartstopping and terrible things plotted by your government.. if not 9/11 then other things.

[-Speedy-]

I believe that the US knew this was going to happen and probs had unless videos of Osama Bin Laden say he was going to do this. But i dont thing the government knew the exact day this was going to happen.

[medchiller]

Regardless of what or how you argue your opinion on the matter you will may get the answer but you will never change the result. Many people died and many more people were touched by the tragedy. Why argue over who did it or why they did it? It all brings us to the same point, innocent people died. It is in the past and we cannot change it so instead of arguing lets just make sure this won't happen again.
Edit: I know this is a debate topic but it really has evolved into an argument.