[koolwolf2]

I`ll have the insolence to go off topic in the off topic section and ask you Opti :
How is that your loses in individual pvp were reseted ?

My disconnects were reset.

As for your question koolwolf:

And this goes directly to the problem of evil. Given that Christians assign evil to man's free will, a corollary to your conclusion is that any extant omnimax god must approve of evil.

first the quote means that men have free will which is against you
second am not christian am muslim
thrid evil in my religion is associated to the devil what ever you may name him but in my religion its Ebliis

This quote is in response to the assumption that god is "omnimax" (all powerful and all knowing) and thus, we, as humans, do NOT have free will. Therefore, god himself must approve of evil, as we, as humans, cannot choose right from wrong.

But, if free will exists, then there is no omnimax god . Choose .

i dont need to choose i will believe what i want to if we have no freewill then god put you up to this but why are you continuing? god wants you to continue 0,0 really i won't  choose it like choose 1 or 1 -.-

[Optimism]

Well, at least you actually understand the point I'm attempting to convey.

We can't know the answer, so by all means, continue your beliefs (as long as they don't take away the rights of others -- gays, reproductive rights, etc.).

[Xrow]

Opti, we grasp what you mean.
Your just wrong.
Lol.

You don't grasp the concept, as this is universally accepted within the philosophical community. Proponents assigned to "god" disallow your free will if that god is considered all knowing. It is a paradox. There is nothing wrong about it. You don't understand the concept.

Allie's example clearly demonstrates her lack of understanding of the concept.

First of all, who are you to say what I do or do not understand?
Secondly, I see no evidence or reason behind the statement that it is "universally accepted within the philosophical community."
Thirdly, I have already LOGICALLY EXPLAINED TO YOU WHY FREE WILL IN THE PRESENCE OF OMNISCIENCE IS NOT ONLY PLAUSIBLE, BUT IS ACTUAL. You and Kelvin have just restated your single illogical argument over and over. Use your f**king brain.

You've never given a "logical explanation" for why this is plausible, as it is not.

1. Multiple conflicting religions (including atheism) exist.
2. All individuals believe in only one of these conflicting religions.
3. If any one of these religions is absolutely true - or even if an undiscovered religion is absolutely true - the others must be absolutely false.
4. Every person that is not in belief of that single absolutely true religion is exercising free will by defying that religion.

No matter which religion is absolutely true, some amount of people are exercising free will by defying that religion.
This is free will, literally everyone practices it, regardless of the absolute truth.



Some believe, like Tyler, that free will in the presence of omniscience is impossible because if a deity absolutely knows what you will do, you have no choice but to do it.

This assertion is fatally flawed.
Foremost, this belief is based on flawed logic that stems from a lack of understanding. Proponents of this concept are under the impression that absolute knowledge (omniscience) requires absolute control, but this is simply illogical. No reasonable thought behind this notion.



Some believe, like Tyler, that free will in the presence of omniscience is not really free will, but is merely the illusion of free will.

This is simply a sorrowful attempt at denying a logical conclusion with a completely illogical, yet technically non-disprovable, substitute.

[Optimism]

Opti, we grasp what you mean.
Your just wrong.
Lol.

You don't grasp the concept, as this is universally accepted within the philosophical community. Proponents assigned to "god" disallow your free will if that god is considered all knowing. It is a paradox. There is nothing wrong about it. You don't understand the concept.

Allie's example clearly demonstrates her lack of understanding of the concept.

First of all, who are you to say what I do or do not understand?
Secondly, I see no evidence or reason behind the statement that it is "universally accepted within the philosophical community."
Thirdly, I have already LOGICALLY EXPLAINED TO YOU WHY FREE WILL IN THE PRESENCE OF OMNISCIENCE IS NOT ONLY PLAUSIBLE, BUT IS ACTUAL. You and Kelvin have just restated your single illogical argument over and over. Use your f**king brain.

You've never given a "logical explanation" for why this is plausible, as it is not.

1. Multiple conflicting religions (including atheism) exist.
2. All individuals believe in only one of these conflicting religions.
3. If any one of these religions is absolutely true - or even if an undiscovered religion is absolutely true - the others must be absolutely false.
4. Every person that is not in belief of that single absolutely true religion is exercising free will by defying that religion.

No matter which religion is absolutely true, some amount of people are exercising free will by defying that religion.
This is free will, literally everyone practices it, regardless of the absolute truth.



Some believe, like Tyler, that free will in the presence of omniscience is impossible because if a deity absolutely knows what you will do, you have no choice but to do it.

This assertion is fatally flawed.
Foremost, this belief is based on flawed logic that stems from a lack of understanding. Proponents of this concept are under the impression that absolute knowledge (omniscience) requires absolute control, but this is simply illogical. No reasonable thought behind this notion.



Some believe, like Tyler, that free will in the presence of omniscience is not really free will, but is merely the illusion of free will.

This is simply a sorrowful attempt at denying a logical conclusion with a completely illogical, yet technically non-disprovable, substitute.

In the absence of absolute control, the other half of the paradox takes hold -- loss of omnipotence. Congratulations, you've walked into yet another paradox.

It is logically conclusive to understand that an omnimax god cannot exist if free will exists. This is simply the case.

[Lyric_]

So, if god is all knowing, can he change his mind?

[Optimism]

So, if god is all knowing, can he change his mind?

OH SNAP -- god is a slave to his own all-knowingness. HE HAS NO FREE WILL!

>.>

[Xrow]

You are literally retarded.
I almost feel bad calling you a retard - you can't help it, you were born that way.

[koolwolf2]

So, if god is all knowing, can he change his mind?

i think so why not?

So, if god is all knowing, can he change his mind?

OH SNAP -- god is a slave to his own all-knowingness. HE HAS NO FREE WILL!

>.>

how come you know that you mister know it all?

[Optimism]

So, if god is all knowing, can he change his mind?

i think so why not?

So, if god is all knowing, can he change his mind?

OH SNAP -- god is a slave to his own all-knowingness. HE HAS NO FREE WILL!

>.>

how come you know that you mister know it all?

This will only make sense, so to speak, if you understand the paradox being discussed.

[Xrow]

koolwolf2, Opti and Lyric are under the false impression that if a being knows everything, then that being must also control everything. They lack the ability to see around their own hindrances.

[Optimism]

koolwolf2, Opti and Lyric are under the false impression that if a being knows everything, then that being must also control everything. They lack the ability to see around their own hindrances.

If there are four viable options and god doesn't know EXACTLY which one you will select, then, by definition, that "god" is not all-knowing. He will know your selection before you select it and thus, you have no free will, despite you perceiving otherwise. Also, if god is all knowing, then god himself has no free will, as he knows exactly what he will do before he actually does it.

Its tough to come to terms with, I know.

[Xrow]

koolwolf2, Opti and Lyric are under the false impression that if a being knows everything, then that being must also control everything. They lack the ability to see around their own hindrances.

He will know your selection before you select it and thus, you have no free will, despite you perceiving otherwise.

No evidence to support this claim, either inductional or deductional. Talk to any logical and intelligent human, they will tell you what I have.

[Optimism]

koolwolf2, Opti and Lyric are under the false impression that if a being knows everything, then that being must also control everything. They lack the ability to see around their own hindrances.

He will know your selection before you select it and thus, you have no free will, despite you perceiving otherwise.

No evidence to support this claim, either inductional or deductional. Talk to any logical and intelligent human, they will tell you what I have.

So you don't have what you claim I don't have? LoL.

It is a matter of perspective. Sadly, I perceive yours to be an illogical one. Your logical pathway is full of trees and bushes that seemingly have thrown you off the end destination.

Subjectivity is a beautiful thing. Regardless of how wrong you really are, you will still perceive yourself to be correct. The reversal is true as well.

[Xrow]

koolwolf2, Opti and Lyric are under the false impression that if a being knows everything, then that being must also control everything. They lack the ability to see around their own hindrances.

He will know your selection before you select it and thus, you have no free will, despite you perceiving otherwise.

No evidence to support this claim, either inductional or deductional. Talk to any logical and intelligent human, they will tell you what I have.

It is a matter of perspective. Sadly, I perceive yours to be an illogical one. Your logical pathway is full of trees and bushes that seemingly have thrown you off the end destination.

It is not a matter of perspective. Truth is absolute, regardless of perspective of it.



You have given no actual reasoning for your assumption of the paradox of omniscience. I suspect no actual reasoning exists for it, though.

"Reason" 1:
"If God knows all, He must also control all."

You must realize the difference between knowing and control. Until you can understand the extremely simple difference, there is no hope that you will realize your fallacy.

"Reason" 2:
"You only think you know that you have free will, when in actuality, your existence is predestined."

The first problem with this "argument" is that there is simply no evidence behind it.
The second problem is the falsity of your first premise - this cripples your second premise and all proceeding it.
The third problem with this "argument" is that, in order to think I have free will, I would be exercising free will! Now, why would an omni-benevolent creator allow me to believe I have free will while He is orchestrating mine and everyone else's thoughts/actions?
The fourth problem is this: Why would God force His creation to believe in something other than himself? And why would he force some people to hate him completely?


Finally - and yes, I have explained this to you at least twice already, yet you still fail to grasp it - there are multiple religions on earth, and most teach mutual exclusivity. If any one of these religions is true, or even if none of them are, people are still exercising free will by believing in religions that contradict the others!

An example:
If Christianity is absolutely true, then your belief in a lack of God is evidence of free will. My God allows you to exercise your free will by believing that He does not exist.

If atheism is absolutely true, then my belief in Christianity is evidence of free will. Your lack of God allows me to exercise my free will by believing that God exists.

[Optimism]

I've given plenty of reasoning (and other's reasoning) for the validity of this paradox. It exists -- you simply don't understand it and maintain that, whatever I say, these statements aren't "proof". Why is this? Because you don't understand the concept.

I won't waste anymore time piling on the evidence that has been on the table since page one. lol.