[Lyric_]

Xrow, you are now confusing "knowing" and "thinking". If I were god, and I thought you would make a certain decision, then you would have the free will take make one or the other.
Thus, making me not-so "all powerful, and all knowing".


BUT Since your god is "all knowing, and all power" my decisions are KNOWN and cannot be changed.

If you changed it, then I already KNEW you were going to do so. You perceive it as free will, I know it as what will be done.

[Xrow]

Xrow, you are now confusing "knowing" and "thinking". If I were god, and I thought you would make a certain decision, then you would have the free will take make one or the other.
Thus, making me not-so "all powerful, and all knowing".


BUT Since your god is "all knowing, and all power" my decisions are KNOWN and cannot be changed.

If you changed it, then I already KNEW you were going to do so. You perceive it as free will, I know it as what will be done.

First of all, how am I confusing knowing with thinking?
Second, God is all-knowing, not all-controlling. Please realize the difference.
Third, "my decisions are KNOWN and cannot be changed." Really? They cannot be changed?


Finally, what do you not understand?
God can KNOW what you will do without CONTROLLING what you will do.



Here is a simple exercise for you:
In almost any given situation that is not directly related to your actions, ask yourself: "Do I know what will happen?"
Next, ask yourself: "Does my knowledge of what will happen have any affect on its occurrence?"
Finally, ask yourself: "Could I alter the outcome, given that I put forth the effort to do so?"

Write it down and try it. I dare you.

[Allie]

I'll repeat that Opti, you make a valid point: the perceived free will could be viewed as taken away if someone knows what you're going to do before you do it.
However, my example I previously posted completely invalidates this.

Let's say I came from 20 years in the future.
I know what you're going to do and when you're gonna do it because I come from the future.
So does this mean I control you and you have no free will?

I know exactly what you're going to do.
However, knowing what you're going to do has no effect on what you're actually going to choose to do.

[Optimism]

Wow, you two are just failures. This is so simple to grasp, yet you can't grasp it. lol.

http://www.futureperspective.com/free.htm

http://kazimskorner.blogspot.com/2007/09/paradox-of-omniscience-and-free-will.html.

God lacks free will as well XD.

Similar to, can god create a piece of toast so hot he cannot eat it? BOOM.

Read.

[Allie]

dude reply to my example.

Let's say I came from 20 years in the future.
I know what you're going to do and when you're gonna do it because I come from the future.
So does this mean I control you and you have no free will?

You're disappointing me.


@the first link, that barely told me anything in relation to your argument.
You're gonna have to try again, cause that did nothing for you.

@the second link, I'm athiest so I don't care o.o.

[Jeffalo13]

Similar to, can god create a piece of toast so hot he cannot eat it? BOOM.

Who the hell uses that joke with toast?  Pop-Tart, nub, Pop-Tart.

[Optimism]

Re-read the links. You didn't read them, obviously, as both concern exactly what we are discussing...

lol

[Xrow]

Opti, we grasp what you mean.
Your just wrong.
Lol.

[Optimism]

Opti, we grasp what you mean.
Your just wrong.
Lol.

You don't grasp the concept, as this is universally accepted within the philosophical community. Proponents assigned to "god" disallow your free will if that god is considered all knowing. It is a paradox. There is nothing wrong about it. You don't understand the concept.

Allie's example clearly demonstrates her lack of understanding of the concept.

[Allie]

Opti, we grasp what you mean.
Your just wrong.
Lol.

You don't grasp the concept, as this is universally accepted within the philosophical community. Proponents assigned to "god" disallow your free will if that god is considered all knowing. It is a paradox. There is nothing wrong about it. You don't understand the concept.

Allie's example clearly demonstrates her lack of understanding of the concept.

*logic is destroying me*
*i know all therefore i control everything you do*

[Xrow]

Opti, we grasp what you mean.
Your just wrong.
Lol.

You don't grasp the concept, as this is universally accepted within the philosophical community. Proponents assigned to "god" disallow your free will if that god is considered all knowing. It is a paradox. There is nothing wrong about it. You don't understand the concept.

Allie's example clearly demonstrates her lack of understanding of the concept.

First of all, who are you to say what I do or do not understand?
Secondly, I see no evidence or reason behind the statement that it is "universally accepted within the philosophical community."
Thirdly, I have already LOGICALLY EXPLAINED TO YOU WHY FREE WILL IN THE PRESENCE OF OMNISCIENCE IS NOT ONLY PLAUSIBLE, BUT IS ACTUAL. You and Kelvin have just restated your single illogical argument over and over. Use your f**king brain.

[grant746]

it looks like you got your acc back

[Xrow]

Did I lose it for any realistic reason, or did Opti just ban me?

[koolwolf2]

so am looking into neutral views between Opti and Xrow i go with Xrow

opti says if gods exists and knows what are u gonna do thus proving u have no free will

xrow says god exists  he knows what are u gonna do but that doesnt effect ur choices

let me try to act up here xD

well if god does know what are u going to do next before u do it doesnt need to prove that u have no free will

lets go back to the start ex when ur born does god tell u to cry or keep silent

choices are made like a fork in a road/river

each fork leads to another one

god knows which ur gonna take

but he doesnt do anything  about it, why would you have no free will?

like the silent observer It (cant call god a gender) knows what will happen but doesnt alert u proving that u had free will its like letting someone make a mistake just to learn from it

You pick up a hamburger and are deciding the following:

To eat it or not to eat it or to not eat it and feed it to your seeing eye dog.

I, Tyler am secretly god and know exactly what you are going to do, as I sit beside of you as a friend. I watch you think intensely about what you are going to do. I snicker to myself knowing exactly what you are going to do, given I am all knowing and all powerful -- I know you will feed it to your dog.

Sure enough, 15 rough minutes later, while you sat there deciding, you feed it to your dog. You think you have free will, while I know that you do not, as I understand and KNOW what choice you will make before it is made.

Free will?

NAWP.

It knows but doesnt do anything u have free will unless u talk to god 24/7 which i doubt but if u argue with this if u do talk to god and he tells u : you will jump of the bridge so you dont, trying to proving him wrong while he actually knows you will not jump just making u think that he knows you are going to jump thus proving u have no free will while this doesnt happen am with xrow

free will+absolute truth is possible u lost Opti 0,0

[Optimism]

Opti, we grasp what you mean.
Your just wrong.
Lol.

You don't grasp the concept, as this is universally accepted within the philosophical community. Proponents assigned to "god" disallow your free will if that god is considered all knowing. It is a paradox. There is nothing wrong about it. You don't understand the concept.

Allie's example clearly demonstrates her lack of understanding of the concept.

First of all, who are you to say what I do or do not understand?
Secondly, I see no evidence or reason behind the statement that it is "universally accepted within the philosophical community."
Thirdly, I have already LOGICALLY EXPLAINED TO YOU WHY FREE WILL IN THE PRESENCE OF OMNISCIENCE IS NOT ONLY PLAUSIBLE, BUT IS ACTUAL. You and Kelvin have just restated your single illogical argument over and over. Use your f**king brain.

You've never given a "logical explanation" for why this is plausible, as it is not.