[Thornz]

Title pretty much says it. Patches are the lords of PvP since they can get full TD and be completely invincible to a transed bot. And to top that off they also do lots more damage to transed bots.

So you might think, "Ok, so just don't trans."  Well patch also does the most dmg of any bot type, so they still have the advantage against rams, whose stats are 100% geared towards transing (which is useless against TD patch).  At least surges have their speed and evade, that's somethig. Rams really get the shitty end of the stick in PvP IMO.

Why not nerf TD in PvP so that rams can at least do minor dmg? Like, nerf capped TD to 30-50% damage from transed bots, instead of 0% like it is right now.

Thoughts?

[DevilzDemise]

+1

+1

[Experiences]

+1

+1

+1.

[ghostkid17]

+1

+1

+1.

+1

[123bomb123]

WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING IS TO TAKE EVERY TD ITEM AND DEVREASE IT BY LIKE 20-30%!!!!

[Thornz]

WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING IS TO TAKE EVERY TD ITEM AND DEVREASE IT BY LIKE 20-30%!!!!

No cause then you wouldn't be able to get cap TD in sector mode.

[mic99]

We could add certain TD items in the OP Tag, thus allowing them a set maximum TD.

[opuiq3]

+1

+1

+1.

+1

+1

We could add certain TD items in the OP Tag, thus allowing them a set maximum TD.

+1

[Epic xD]

No, you're just bad...

GC surge = hard counter to patch

The logical thing to do would be to ban +4 shoulders and shields in the OP tag, so people can't just stack both TD and TG.

[Epic xD]

^Er... no...

GC hard counters patches since patches rely on upper cut and extensive blocking >_>

<- Coming from someone who knows about PvP

Maybe if you guys actually played PvP and BvB (preferably without OP items) instead of playing sector, you'd know this type of stuff.

[Reviax]

Patches lords of PvP? Nah. That only applies while RT1 is in play.

+1 to adding +4 shield/shoulder to OP tag.

[Epic xD]

Yes I know that but they are easy to avoid since they must stand still to gc.

Durf. Similarly to how Charmz doesn't know jack about BvB, you don't know much about PvP. In a surge vs. surge match, GC is the best skill to use overall when there is little lag between players.

GC surge match-ups against another surge (with minimal lag):
-GC hard counters upper.
-GC is advantageous against ion.
-GC is slightly advantageous against rush.
-GC dittos with GC.

Surge match-ups with a patch (regardless of lag):
-GC surge hard counters patches.
-Rush surge is very advantageous against patches.
-Ion surge is very advantageous against patches.
-Upper surge is advantageous against patches.

However, since a large portion of the players in this game live far away from each other, GC loses much of its edge in a surge vs. surge match. That is not the case for a surge vs. patch match. Instead of nerfing TD, you're better off banning +4 shoulders and shields to prevent surges, the main benefactor of those +4 parts, from being absolutely godly. Even with that ban, surges would still be by far the best bot type to use. That is how Bots PvP has always been.

If you want a game that has the potential to be balanced between each of the 3 bot types, your best bet would be BvB. At this moment in time, surges are still definitely the best bot in BvB; however, with the correct adjustments, all 3 have the potential to be about equal. Minor disparities in potential would be irrelevant.

tl;dr
GC is the best skill for surges to use against surges in a match with minimal lag; GC is the best skill for surges to use against patches regardless of lag.

[Epic xD]

If you were a PvPer in Bots, you would've known that GC surge was the big thing in 2008. When I play PvP, I generally just use rush because rush plays better against lag. I've used GC against Silver, and he had a hard time beating me with GC. You need to realize something -- I don't actually like Bots PvP and play it as little as possible because it's way too stale, bland, and predictable.

SSB PvP > Bots PvP because of character diversity, advanced techniques, etc

[Rossbach]

As Lyfe said GC can be a great advantage against a blocking patch, over any other skill. GC hits harder than any other (non II) skill in 1v1. However GC is not as big as Lyfe is taking it. The range of GC is meh. It is basically the same as stun, and upper (horizontial wise, not vertical.) Because horixontally they are nearly the same it makes up for the sorta small hit box as long as your not dumb. Lag and lag+rush is a big fear for GC.. A person with GC would most likely block the run and hit with a GC. However a laggy person would just break though that def, making it harder for GC to land a hit. And even if they do land a hit, with lag you get get out of it after 1/2 hits (never mind mobility boost.). Another problem with it is that, it is rather hard to hit, kinda like stun. As long as you play it safe and smart you will avoid the GC. Of course keep in mind Patches are not that nimble. Another flaw in it is a ffa with 3+ people. " GC hits harder than any other (non II) skill in 1v1." In a ffa you can't stack GC as much as you want to get the full 4 hits most of the time. As some nub will come running in. Anyways GC has it's advantages and disadvantages.



Now going onto TD:

WHAT IVE BEEN SAYING IS TO TAKE EVERY TD ITEM AND DEVREASE IT BY LIKE 20-30%!!!!

No cause then you wouldn't be able to get cap TD in sector mode.

Rather sad to see that from you. Please stop this "omg max TD for sector crap." There is one of the reasons is a limited amount of good players nowadays. They simply hide behind a barrages of 0's.





Ross agrees that TD must be limited. A Surge / Ram can stack up to 755 TD. Which is way too much of an advantage to them. The max TD a person can reach should be more like 600-800 for a Patch.

Just to note the problem is not the Patches in PvP / BvB. Surges still dominate PvP / BvB. Ram owns in Sector, and depending on the mobs and map, patches have their time to shine with TA. Sadly tho everyone is TD. Ross has sorta accepted that fact but hates it. He accepts it because he knows others will fail without it.  

[Thornz]

@ross I kinda just assumed that max TD in sector was intended. Never really thought it was very fair though, especially now that we have raids :-/

I guess if it weren't possible to get max TD, that would be a good thing, since it would force nubs to actually be skilled instead of just upper spam in raid. Not like they wouldn't still upper spam, but they'd be a bit more cautious...