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Started by Xrow, February 26, 2011, 07:22:55 PM

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Xrow

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February 26, 2011, 07:22:55 PM Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 07:28:24 PM by Xrow
Quote from: Optimism
Then, provide links substantiating that this universe is indeed finite. I would take my life right now if done.

I gave the names of my sources in my original "The God Allusion" post.
Apparently you didn't look them up.

The Universe is finite.
a) Einstein's Theory of Relativity states that the universe is expanding at a constant rate and has been from a definite point somewhere in the past. If we were to reverse time and watch the universe, we would see it condense, at a constant rate, to a point of nothing. Einstein's Theory of Relativity has been proved to 5 decimal points.
b) Hubble's observance of what he calls "Red Shift" on the Mount Wilson Observatory proves Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Hubble's Red Shift is the observance of a trail of light that follows galaxies. It proves that other galaxies and cosmic bodies are moving away from us at a constant rate. This trail is observable because light moves so quickly that time literally moves slower for light than for stationary objects. Because of this, looking into space is essentially looking back in time.
c) The First Law of Thermodynamics states that there is a finite amount of energy in the universe (or any other body).
d) The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the universe is running out of energy. Because only a finite amount of energy can exist in a body (The First Law of Thermodynamics), and because the universe is running out of energy, the universe must be finite – if it was infinite, we would have run out of energy long ago.
e) The findings of NASA's COBE Probe first explored cosmic background radiation, the oldest light in the universe, that originated at the big bang. The findings of NASA's COBE Probe can be seen at http://lambda.gsfc.nasa.gov/product/cobe/.
f) The findings of NASA's WMAP Probe prove the findings of COBE. WMAP mapped the cosmic background radiation of our universe. The findings of NASA's WMAP Probe can be seen at http://wmap.gsfc.nasa.gov/. A timeline of the universe can be seen at http://wmap.gsfc.nasa.gov/media/060915/index.html.
g) If the Big Bang actually occurred, we would see a variation in the temperature of cosmic background radiation. NASA's COBE Probe was sent to explore the cosmic background radiation of our universe and search for any such variation. COBE was launched in 1989 and in 1992, COBE's findings were announced. Not only did COBE find a variation, but the precision was amazing. The variations showed that the explosion and expansion of the universe was precisely tweaked to allow just enough matter to aloow the formation of galaxies, but not enough to cause the universe to collapse.

rhysmayer


Optimism

February 26, 2011, 07:36:10 PM #2 Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 07:40:18 PM by Optimism
From NASA (latest evidence):

http://wmap.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_shape.html

Hello implications of dark matter!

A treasure trove of opinion:

http://www.reddit.com/search?q=infinite+universe
- Opti -
- Sanctuary Founder | PvP King -
- Retired -

Xrow

Sigh. I mean't finite as in time, not space.

Optimism

February 26, 2011, 07:43:13 PM #4 Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 07:44:39 PM by Optimism
Quote from: Xrow on February 26, 2011, 07:40:12 PM
Sigh. I mean't finite as in time, not space.

...

Universe expands and collapses, expands and collapses. Infinite universe with regard to time.

There are some that make the following proposition:

We are the inhabitants of a sole universe that is infinitely collapsing and expanding. We are merely the evolutionary products of this expansion series.

Yea, mind blowing.

"SOMEONE HAD TO MAKE THE UNIVERSE"

My response:

"SOMEONE HAD TO MAKE GOD"

You can't make a claim here. Understand this. It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove that the universe is infinite or finite at this time in human history.
- Opti -
- Sanctuary Founder | PvP King -
- Retired -

Xrow

Quote from: Optimism on February 26, 2011, 07:43:13 PM
Universe expands and collapses, expands and collapses. Infinite universe with regard to time.

o.O.. Wow.

c) The First Law of Thermodynamics states that there is a finite amount of energy in the universe (or any other body).
d) The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the universe is running out of energy. Because only a finite amount of energy can exist in a body (The First Law of Thermodynamics), and because the universe is running out of energy, the universe must be finite – if it was infinite, we would have run out of energy long ago.

I dare say continuous big bangs would expend some energy o.O..
Once again, use your brain.


Quote from: Optimism on February 26, 2011, 07:43:13 PM
"SOMEONE HAD TO MAKE THE UNIVERSE"

My response:

"SOMEONE HAD TO MAKE GOD"

You can't make a claim here. Understand this. It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove that the universe is infinite or finite at this time in human history.

Think objectively.
God is the uncaused causer, and thus He is infinite.
An uncaused causer literally MUST exist.

AllEyesOnMe

I'm only thinking, it's a ****in miracle we exist ... that's all I know for sure, the rest is  uncertain.


Optimism

Quote from: Xrow on February 26, 2011, 07:55:34 PM
Quote from: Optimism on February 26, 2011, 07:43:13 PM
Universe expands and collapses, expands and collapses. Infinite universe with regard to time.

o.O.. Wow.

c) The First Law of Thermodynamics states that there is a finite amount of energy in the universe (or any other body).
d) The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the universe is running out of energy. Because only a finite amount of energy can exist in a body (The First Law of Thermodynamics), and because the universe is running out of energy, the universe must be finite – if it was infinite, we would have run out of energy long ago.

I dare say continuous big bangs would expend some energy o.O..
Once again, use your brain.


Quote from: Optimism on February 26, 2011, 07:43:13 PM
"SOMEONE HAD TO MAKE THE UNIVERSE"

My response:

"SOMEONE HAD TO MAKE GOD"

You can't make a claim here. Understand this. It is IMPOSSIBLE to prove that the universe is infinite or finite at this time in human history.

Think objectively.
God is the uncaused causer, and thus He is infinite.
An uncaused causer literally MUST exist.

Welp, I've had my dose of Irony for the day.

Hey, I'm King -- abiogenesis proves that the universe is infinite.

GG? LOL. This is exactly what you are doing -- deriving nonsense conclusions from theories that weren't meant to be applicable through the means you are applying them.

Skewed ****ing logic.
- Opti -
- Sanctuary Founder | PvP King -
- Retired -

Xrow

Once again, a claim without evidence.
Typical of an atheist.
Pitiful.

AllEyesOnMe

I've been reading walls of text lately and I almost feel like knowing you Opti, Xrow but instead of reaching a conclusion I got even more abstruse.
You know what they say - The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.



Optimism

Quote from: Xrow on February 26, 2011, 09:06:52 PM
Once again, a claim without evidence.
Typical of an atheist.
Pitiful.

Ok, lets take a look at who the burden of proof resides with here. I'm rejecting the proposition on what you perceive to be founded on valid evidence. However, clearly the provided "evidence" is merely speculation within the scientific community. Therefore, I can reject your claims without providing "evidence" to the contrary, as you've yet to propose, what would be in my opinion (and many others), appropriate substance backing your statement.

The burden of proof remains with yourself. I'm making the claim that the universe, as infinite or finite, is indistinguishable based on speculation from proponents form both sides of the coin.

Notice the use of speculation. Science hasn't made the advancements necessary to substantiate finite or infinite properties associated with the universe. In comparison, science has made appropriate advances to quantify gravity and many of its properties within the immediate vicinity of earth and its surrounding planetary (and solar) bodies. Please, understand this difference.
- Opti -
- Sanctuary Founder | PvP King -
- Retired -

Xrow

February 27, 2011, 03:24:43 AM #12 Last Edit: February 27, 2011, 03:30:25 AM by Xrow
Quote from: Optimism on February 26, 2011, 11:37:54 PM
Quote from: Xrow on February 26, 2011, 09:06:52 PM
Once again, a claim without evidence.
Typical of an atheist.
Pitiful.

Ok, lets take a look at who the burden of proof resides with here. I'm rejecting the proposition on what you perceive to be founded on valid evidence. However, clearly the provided "evidence" is merely speculation within the scientific community. This is the most advanced science there is, Opti o.O.. Therefore, I can reject your claims without providing "evidence" to the contrary, as you've yet to propose, what would be in my opinion (and many others), appropriate substance backing your statement. LOL. 32% of the world is Christian. The majority of religious people (including atheists) would agree with me. Therefore I can assume that my arguments, which are based on evidence by way of logic and science, are much more supported and accurate than the arguments you claim to have.

You believe that your lack of ability to prove me wrong translates to your correctness. Seriously?


The burden of proof remains with yourself. I'm making the claim that the universe, as infinite or finite, is indistinguishable based on speculation from proponents form both sides of the coin.
HAHA. 2.5% of the world is atheist. 32% is Christian. The burden of proof is with ME? LOL. LOL. Get a grip on reality, Opti. I've given more proof than you for less of a reason. THAT is laughable.

Notice the use of speculation. Science hasn't made the advancements necessary to substantiate finite or infinite properties associated with the universe. So infinite energy exists in a finite universe? LOLLOLOLOL are you trying to be a comedian now? In comparison, science has made appropriate advances to quantify gravity and many of its properties within the immediate vicinity of earth and its surrounding planetary (and solar) bodies. Please, understand this difference. And? o.O..

When I knew less, you seemed pretty intelligent.
Now that I know more, you seem like a silly child. No offense lol.

Nazisurges


Optimism

Quote from: Xrow on February 27, 2011, 03:24:43 AM
Quote from: Optimism on February 26, 2011, 11:37:54 PM
Quote from: Xrow on February 26, 2011, 09:06:52 PM
Once again, a claim without evidence.
Typical of an atheist.
Pitiful.

Ok, lets take a look at who the burden of proof resides with here. I'm rejecting the proposition on what you perceive to be founded on valid evidence. However, clearly the provided "evidence" is merely speculation within the scientific community. This is the most advanced science there is, Opti o.O.. Therefore, I can reject your claims without providing "evidence" to the contrary, as you've yet to propose, what would be in my opinion (and many others), appropriate substance backing your statement. LOL. 32% of the world is Christian. The majority of religious people (including atheists) would agree with me. Therefore I can assume that my arguments, which are based on evidence by way of logic and science, are much more supported and accurate than the arguments you claim to have.

You believe that your lack of ability to prove me wrong translates to your correctness. Seriously?


The burden of proof remains with yourself. I'm making the claim that the universe, as infinite or finite, is indistinguishable based on speculation from proponents form both sides of the coin.
HAHA. 2.5% of the world is atheist. 32% is Christian. The burden of proof is with ME? LOL. LOL. Get a grip on reality, Opti. I've given more proof than you for less of a reason. THAT is laughable.

Notice the use of speculation. Science hasn't made the advancements necessary to substantiate finite or infinite properties associated with the universe. So infinite energy exists in a finite universe? LOLLOLOLOL are you trying to be a comedian now? In comparison, science has made appropriate advances to quantify gravity and many of its properties within the immediate vicinity of earth and its surrounding planetary (and solar) bodies. Please, understand this difference. And? o.O..

When I knew less, you seemed pretty intelligent.
Now that I know more, you seem like a silly child. No offense lol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
- Opti -
- Sanctuary Founder | PvP King -
- Retired -

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